Paytables mean NOTHING

[Vman96]

In States that have regulated gambling commissions, these chips are checked regularly to make sure they are not rigged. 

This isn't really correct. Once they get on the gaming floor, they are likely to be mostly untouched unless there is a cheating claim. However, we should still feel comfortable that most video poker machines are from IGT which makes slots/video poker for tons of states and would be stupid to ship a product out that would not conform to state regulations. Setting games like 8/5 DDB and 7/5 JoB make the casino plenty of money. It's really about volume. Many individual players fail to consider this.

[BOOPSAHOY]

[QUOTE=FloridaPhil] In States that have regulated gambling commissions, these chips are checked regularly to make sure they are not rigged. 

This isn't really correct. Once they get on the gaming floor, they are likely to be mostly untouched unless there is a cheating claim. However, we should still feel comfortable that most video poker machines are from IGT which makes slots/video poker for tons of states and would be stupid to ship a product out that would not conform to state regulations. Setting games like 8/5 DDB and 7/5 JoB make the casino plenty of money. It's really about volume. Many individual players fail to consider this.[/QUOTE]
Good reply Vman

[FloridaPhil]

I did not know that.  I always heard they checked them on a regular basis.  Interesting...

[Casino Knight]

From what I observed recently on a couple of $20k payouts, was that prior to paying me, they opened up the machine, removed a board and verified that the tamper-proof seal on the chip had not been disturbed.
Just saying.

[zwaszz]

Paytables, for myself and my wife, at least, mean the difference between winning and losing.  I will not identify the particular game, however, the paytable I will ONLY play is over 100% return and were it not for that, I would not be a consistent winner at this game.  Hence, reason for not identifying the game.  Some may guess.  Others, well, know from their own gambling.  Nope, sorry, paytables RULE THE VIDEO POKER GAME, least ways this is my take on the subject.  No question about it. 

[Vman96]

From what I observed recently on a couple of $20k payouts, was that prior to paying me, they opened up the machine, removed a board and verified that the tamper-proof seal on the chip had not been disturbed.
Just saying.

Well on big jackpots especially, this makes sense as it is an easy check to do. But if the chip was rigged in the first place, then the check for tampering wouldn't help. I'm pretty sure they rarely electronically check the chip without probable cause though.

[DaBurglar]

someone pointed out how the NJ gaming commission USED to have on-site booths and offices staffed 24/7 in all AC casinos....this went by the wayside shortly after the 2007 economic disaster and subsequent deterioration in AC's overall health.  They slashed and burned the budget of the gaming comm, froze hiring and pay and cut benefits.  All casinos in AC now have EMPTY gaming comm spaces that are only utilized when the commission gets called in for a specific problem.  What resources they now have are totally committed to investigation and research, undercover stings and surveilance involving underage gambling and drinking (minors go to casinos more to DRINK than gamble, with tragic consequences), corrupt dealers, vetting casino employees or applicants, money laundering and other corruption.   The current likelihood that they would even look at a VP machine in a superficial, cursory manner is almost nil.  And the likelihood that, if they did look at a VP machine and found some problem, that it would lead to any action other than fixing THAT machine is nil times nil.... NJ cannot afford to lose any casino, that much is obvious to anyone familiar with the whole scene.... Hence, my continued vigilance and skepticism about the possibility of machines being set well below normal expectations in AC....that and the 6 month-plus disaster I have witnessed via my own play and others, results that are far far worse than any other similar period in my previous 20+ years playing VP.

[tshock]

Let me try to clarify a few things from my original post here.  My main point was that the paytables are not the most important factor in determining whether you will do well in a longer term session or various sessions on a particular machine.  I play in AC.  As I originally tried to explain, during the last quarter of last year, machines at Harrahs were absolutely dead.  Nobody was going to the casino, machines were dead, and Harrahs needed more revenue.  They tightened up the machines (changed chips) during that time but people weren't coming.  I talked to other VP players as well who all agreed.  Furthermore, some bartenders there that I know were in agreement that machines were dead and people weren't going there anymore.  They were not happy as well.  All of a sudden, come January, those same machines were hitting (not particularly jackpots but you can play long sessions and make money or at least not lose much - many 4 of a kinds though).  Others at the bar as well were experiencing the same thing.  You could physically hear the machines getting good hands all over the bar vs last quarter of last year when you hear nothing because the all the machines were all dead.   I'm talking about many days and sessions of playing.  These are 8-5 machines.  There is no doubt in my mind that they "loosened" up the machines.  They changed chips.  The casinos in AC can change chips but can't go under a certain limit.  They tighten machines when they need more revenue and they loosen them at times to generate interest and get more people in the casino. Those of you that don't believe this, and only believe in pure mathematics and the "law of large numbers" as one poster said, are in denial.   Here is another example that I referred to in my original post.  They brought in 4 new machines to the high limit area at Harrahs in January.  They were all hitting.  I was playing for days and racked up many tier points without losing money (not making alot).   Other players were doing the same thing on those machines.   In February, things changed.  You would just lose and lose and lose.  The players that were there all the time stopped playing those machines.  Many times with new machines, as most of you know,  they juice up the machines to get interest which I believe happened.  Then they changed chips and tightened them up.  Also, look at the discussion between TKO and DaBurglar in the topic SHOWBOAT.  They are talking about similar things that I am.   If you are an occasional player, you would look for a  machine with a higher paytable.  However, in AC, if you have the time and patience to observe and try to determine thru play, observation, talking to people (even the slot techs), and figure out if a machine is loose or tight, you will do better, no matter what the paytable is.  That was my point to begin with.  The chip that the casino puts in the machine is more important than the paytable.  DaBurglar brings up another interesting point about the NJ Gaming Commission.  Its true that they are not on sight anymore and only check machines once in awhile. My information is that they check very few machines.  Can they set machines even lower than the lower limit set by NJ Law.  Its possible but not likely.  Too risky and not worth it because if they only tighten the machines to the NJ lower limits, that enough for them to make plenty of revenue. 

[faygo]

Ok, I'm convinced. The Casinos in AC are all cheating.  So, what  city besides Vegas should we play in?

[FloridaPhil]

Come to Florida and play.  I'm convinced they're not cheating, but the odds are so bad you won't win anyway.