Paytables mean NOTHING

[faygo]

[QUOTE=Quad Deuces]I would love to put whatever the "LEAST smelly" game into VPW plus the number of hands you think you've played and see how likely you would be to blow through $500 on a fair game.

But you provided no real details so I won't, I guess.


*crickets*
[/QUOTE]  
 

[Vman96]

*crickets*

But are you going to believe the data they give anyway? I can make up some rigged machine data for analysis if I wanted to.

Sadly I was thinking about tracking all of my hands in a session in the near future just for the hell of it. I'll play so slow though.

[shadowman]

Having had much worse streaks than daburglar complains about, I try to ignore him. I'll say it again. Most people don't understand randomness and the inherent streakiness. Last week on the bank of machines where I play there were 6 RFs. In a normal week I see none or one. I've gone several weeks in a row without seeing a single RF.

There is really no way for an individual to tell if games are rigged unless they are willing to spend a great deal of time keeping good data. That's just the way it is. If a person is worried that a game may be rigged then they should go elsewhere. Is that really too difficult?

[FloridaPhil]

If I thought the games where rigged like Daburglar says, I would quit video poker forever and find something else to do.  If you get 4 Royals in one day, your luck needs to go the other way to match the payback at the top of the screen...  This is why Dancer says you need 3-4 Royals in your stash to play forever and he's only playing 100% machines.  I'm no expert, but even I can see that.  

[sam434343]

Yes, It is true if dont feel games are fair dont play them, But here is the catch i would say at 98% of ALL casinos in U.S. if you know exact figure let us know!? There pay tables are below 100%(this is the legal way of changing pay back onV and casinos know this)) pay back with perfect play on VP so just by changing pay out on full house and flush changes the pay back percentage and the casinos know this and they also know that 90 to 95% of players dont play perfectly so at casinos that have lower percentage pay back get there money quicker from people who play video poker and casinos that give alittle more(higher percentage VP) dont get there money as fast from there customers VP players. But in the longterm even with all your math and randomness knowledge 97% or higher are going come out loser. Trust me when say these casino are not going to lose much money on VP or they would get rid of them, and the big picture is the State(Taxes) the casino is in would lose money and the Federal goverment(Taxes) would lose money if you dont understand what i am talking about, then it is your lose. Why do you think when they had VP games in casino where people were winning on a constant bases that machine are nolonger in casinos. All the expert players on this site have wisdom, which my horse could figure out by stomping his huff, but again 98% of all casinos in U.S. are below 100% pay tables on VP and even the 100% casinos know there going to get your money sooner or later. And the hits they do take from experts is minimal again if these expert were so great casinos would be closing there doors, so the experts are not that great or there are very few of them(that take the casinos for money) or the 100%VP games are still in favor of the casino.But some people are set in there mind they know all and the real loser are them. Sam

[Tedlark]

  I guess all those Wall Street banks and most of corporate America should invest in horses and not Harvard MBAs. No offense to Yale, Princeton, Cornell, Northwestern, or Stanford of course.

[sam434343]

And all of those schools have students and banks are nothing but dirty crooks and act like they done nothing wrong, but they steal/stole from the american people. The fact is most of the highly educated are to stupid to see that, but it takes a animal like a horse to tell those human there stupid. Who is the smart on, never heard of horse arrested from stealing from million of people only these smart humans, who is the dumb one?

[BillyJoe]

And all of those schools have students and banks are nothing but dirty crooks and act like they done nothing wrong, but they steal/stole from the american people. The fact is most of the highly educated are to stupid to see that, but it takes a animal like a horse to tell those human there stupid. Who is the smart on, never heard of horse arrested from stealing from million of people only these smart humans, who is the dumb one?
Just remember, banks and investment firms do not "create" money - they just move other people's money around - for a fee.

[DaBurglar]

I thought I'd pause from throwing more gas on this fire and allow everyone's emotions (and snottiness) to disspiate, and then calmly refocus and explain further my point(s), which is NOT simply to whine about everything that is wrong with AC (which really is a LOT but....)  Actually, I got on the Bus OUT of AC at 2pm Sunday, they lost my wheelchair en route and I did not get home to western mass until after 10 pm! 1)  This thread was about PAYTABLES not mattering WHEN a VP machine decides to deal nothing but crappola for hands, which is technically a true statement, as I have experienced for the past 6-7 months in AC.  This really has been what all my griping is about, the DEAD hand rate that I have seen, witnessed and even tracked during my play in AC. For QUad Deuces benefit, and anyone else who doesnt get it, THIS is what I have been bemoaning all along:   The expected "normal" rate of no-value hands, which typically is 55-60% for normal VP, has been Wayyyyyy out of bounds in AC the last 6-7 months.   We all know that the paytables in AC are abysmal for the most part....there are a few exceptions, like the bank of 8 machines at showboat, the Borgata, A few at caesars etc.   I myself, in choosing "THE LEAST SMELLY" paytables typically try to play any 9/6 JOB or 8/5 Bonus machine I can find.  If I am at the AC club like I was this past weekend, I am SOL as almost ALL their machines are awful (and If I need to answer WHY I was playing there, then no one understands the concept of comps and tournaments and giveaways and all that.)  but that is not the issue here.     2)  I have stated MANY times before, and will state it again here, that I have personally witnessed and recorded, an overall "DEAD" hand rate of over 76% (76.75%) in all the play I have tracked in AC since around last November.   Let that sink in...76%  and I am talking about not just myself but other players I know personally and have seen play as well.   My personal hand totals over this ENTIRE time, including this past weekend, now stand in excess of 300,000 total hands.   When I typically go to AC, I stay anywhere from a minimum of  4 days to up to 10 days at a time once or twice a month, so for 6 months plus this hand total is actually probably LOW for me, but still....forget breaking down actual hand results for hands that paid.   tracking no-value hands is very simple and straightforward as well as much easier/less tedious work.  And as my figure of 76% indicates, that would mean I had MANY sessions, or stretches where the rate is much higher, 80-85% at times of nothing but DUDS.   C'mon...... 3)  I have never ever experienced such consistently abysmal results, visit after visit, anywhere else I have ever played VP since 1992.   I have had cold snaps in places like Vegas or Reno, but never this bad for this long.   You just felt the games were normal and kosher then....but lately in AC, not so much......I do not BELIEVE Video Poker is RIGGED.   I have always said the otherwise is true, BUT I always maintained it is possible, and I have stated and seemingly proved that in AC, SOMETHING is definitely off (or different, as the gaming regs themselves might indicate.)   As to WHY I choose to play in AC, I have already told you why, but again, I LIKE the place apart from its VP, I like the Ocean, I like the food, and quite frankly, I like the fact AC is bigger and more diverse than simply going and being stuck for a day at a time at a place like Foxwoods, and yet is NOT as big or overwhelming as VEGAS.    In other words, I WANT to enjoy myself, have a good time, etc etc in AC!   I do NOT go there expecting to win or play above my head (on the contrary, these abysmal results made me scale back big time on my VP allocations), but when I see myself just losing so fast and onesided I am no longer even earning any comps, and this continues over and over, well......  4)   Shadowman:   I'm having a hard time believing you really are as smug and arrogant as your statement "Some people just dont understand randomness...."   Let me invite you to continue to "Ignore me", you were doing great there for a while.....But before resuming ignoring me, if you really TRULY have had stretches of VP futility "far worse" than anything I myself have experienced, do share with us....give us the breakdown and numbers.  I personally would LOVE to hear that.   Especially since you also said a while back in a different post "I am a profitable player over the long haul" or something like that.....I think I liked you better back when you brilliantly concluded I was that Fa La La La La.... La la la la dolt.  Finally, I have a cyber-can of RAID for the Next *cyber-SPAM* I see crawling around one of my posts.    I said I was posting in AC, you should have realized I couldnt just sit and monitor this thread and reply immediately.   But V-man is right, if I had told you right away what I was playing when I lost 500 bucks VERY quick, what difference would it make what the paytables were?  Because, AGAIN, the reason I lost that much that quick was due to the fact the machines in the AC CLUB deal excessive numbers of total NOTHINGNESS, DUD hands.   I could have been playing a theoretical return of 105% and it would not have mattered, because every machine I tried just dealt hand after hand of poop.   Now, if it were me instead of Quad Deuces and his magic simulator, I might have intuitively figured that out instead of waiting with the crickets......  That's all for now......Happy Cinco De Miracle Whip Sincerely Yours, Da Burglar (Harvard, class of 1992 Majored in Economics and Government, Minored in RANDOMNESS)

[Quad Deuces]

For QUad Deuces benefit...I myself, in choosing "THE LEAST SMELLY" paytables typically try to play any 9/6 JOB or 8/5 Bonus machine I can find.  If I am at the AC club like I was this past weekend, I am SOL as almost ALL their machines are awful...HOW awful?  What were you playing?  What denomination?  How many lines?  How many games?  Are you really that embarrassed to come clean with exactly how bad the schedules are that you've been playing?We've all experienced crappy sessions, bro.  Rags, after rags, after rags, and the machine just takes the money.  500 credits to zero.  *poof*  Damn NSU machine at Red Rock took 600 from me yesterday in 55 minutes and 1800 in a couple hours a couple weeks ago.  Last Sunday it dealt me deuces and gave me another on the draw in the first 15 minutes.  It all works out.