SHOWBOAT

[davidearl]

[QUOTE=DaBurglar]
Now in regards the actual NJ gaming regulation, the fact that VP is simply a "slot" game in AC, and what is actually allowed, section g-3 does NOT preclude setting a VP machine's RTP% below what a paytable would indicate by itself, because as far as the player is concerned, in NJ, unless the casino clearly and specifically ADVERTISES that their VP machines mimic a standard Poker deck, a NJ casino can legally set their machines to deal less than the expected payable hand rate (i.e. "deal more duds") and not violate the wording of #3....the player still has all the info he/she needs to get the HIGHEST possible return from THAT game/machine, it doesnt change what the player should do or how he plays, because the highest possible return is what it is (or what the casino sets it to be, which for slots in NJ can fall anywhere within a wide range.)

Please mathematically prove that #3 is not violated by a greater than 1% RTP margin (cover my ass measure, since changing the probability of getting a 7 from 1 in 13 to 1 in 12.9999999 may not change optimal strategy with the random deck assumption, but also will change the game's return ever so slightly) with a non-random poker deck if the patron is NOT given the probabilities of cards dealt and/or drawn to him or her. I will give you $1,000,000 if you succeed. I am THAT confident that NO ONE can prove what I have just asked.

Just say AC casinos are breaking NJ state law and are gambling with their casino licenses doing so, and I will have no issue with this since I can't logically argue against you on this.[/QUOTE]


    I'm THAT confident you don't have $1,000,000!




     Dave

[Vman96]

    I'm THAT confident you don't have $1,000,000!

     Dave

True because I have often admitted I play VP for < $1 per round, but there is no chance I am wrong, so it doesn't matter anyway. I'm just tired of him saying that is legal for New Jersey to not deal from a random poker deck. Anyone that understands video poker mathematics can see they must deal from a random poker deck to be legal under their laws. Weighting poorer cards stronger than random will change optimal strategy and under New Jersey state law, this would lead to insufficient information for the patron to compute optimal strategy, hence it would be illegal. Is it really that hard to understand??

It's more likely I'm arguing against a brick wall.

[DaBurglar]

[QUOTE=davidearl]

    I'm THAT confident you don't have $1,000,000!

     Dave

True because I have often admitted I play VP for < $1 per round, but there is no chance I am wrong, so it doesn't matter anyway. I'm just tired of him saying that is legal for New Jersey to not deal from a random poker deck. Anyone that understands video poker mathematics can see they must deal from a random poker deck to be legal under their laws. Weighting poorer cards stronger than random will change optimal strategy and under New Jersey state law, this would lead to insufficient information for the patron to compute optimal strategy, hence it would be illegal. Is it really that hard to understand??

It's more likely I'm arguing against a brick wall.[/QUOTE]
 Look, the deck IS random, just as a Slot machine IS Random, yet in the case of a slot machine the RANDOM results are subsequently/simultaneously subjected to a predetermined RTP% set by the casino, that is how it works.....the VP results CAN be subject to the same predetermined RTP% if the casino so chooses, within a specified range.....the deck is randomly shuffled and the subsequent resulting hand is delivered, and under normal circumstances (i.e. a Nevada machine) the results would be around 45% of the time the hand is a winning hand, but in NJ case, this can be set to be lower (but doesnt necessarily mean it is)....the hand is random, just with possible more random CRAP, but the player still plays the same.    Another way to look at it, if you KNEW a VP machine was set to deal an average of 57% duds instead of 55%, HOW would that impact your play (i.e. what to hold and what to fold, and when)?  It really could not, since you dont know what is coming because it is........RANDOM.    ALL I know is, my AC results the past half year bear this out, whereas I NEVER had such results in Nevada where things are exactly what we expect.   Now I know and have curtailed my AC play accordingly.....

[JT]

DaBurglar - why don't you simply write to the NJCCC and get clarification on that section of the law and how things are interpreted? My reading of the law is that the situation you describe is not within the regulation, but I admit it's not a well-written section and the interpretation is always up to the agency tasked with enforcing it, so it's THEIR interpretation that matters. They have an obligation to answer that question, so why not pose it to them in writing, and post their written response when you get it back?

The contact info is here: http://njccc.gov/casinos/about/management/index.html

I'd suggest directing your question to Dianna Fauntleroy, Esq., general counsel for the CCC.

[DaBurglar]

DaBurglar - why don't you simply write to the NJCCC and get clarification on that section of the law and how things are interpreted? My reading of the law is that the situation you describe is not within the regulation, but I admit it's not a well-written section and the interpretation is always up to the agency tasked with enforcing it, so it's THEIR interpretation that matters. They have an obligation to answer that question, so why not pose it to them in writing, and post their written response when you get it back?

The contact info is here: http://njccc.gov/casinos/about/management/index.html

I'd suggest directing your question to Dianna Fauntleroy, Esq., general counsel for the CCC.
 This is a totally sensible and logical thought, and I have thought of doing this many times, but let me clue you in on what is actually going on with the NJ commission..... Each AC Casino has a booth/office on the casino floor devoted to the NJ gaming commission, and up until middle of the year 2008, it was staffed 24/7 by at least two gaming agents, plus a number of roving staff members out on the casino floor during peak times.  When the State Budget went into shcok from the economic collapse around election time 2008, one of the first places they cut was the gaming commission, slashing everything from hiring to hours to you name it.....they prioritized everything they do and are responsible for....now those office/booths on the casino floors are completely empty all the time, the telephones next to the booths that connect you to the commissions hotline are either nonfunctional or lead you to a info line asking you to call ANOTHER number and leave your info/question there.   I have actually attempted many times to VISIT the commissions office in AC, which is located one block south of Resorts on the boardwalk nestled between a antique store and a restaurant.  It rarely is open except for a couple hours each week which are designated as "Open Office Hours" and theoretically are for people like me who have issues or questions.....problem is, when you vist, all they do is log your info and issue and tell you someone will get back to you....if it is a matter of urgency, (like if you were raped or molested or assaulted while on a casino floor) then you are told to call the AC Police (but of course, if such a thing happened you wouldnt be reporting it IN PERSON to the office!  but that is an indication of how utterly ridiculous their mode of operation and staffing currently is...!) Questions and issues regarding supposed casino cheating or failure to follow regs are SO COMMON according to both the desk person I spoke to as well as Casino management personel that the NJ gaming commission is inundated EVERY WEEK with such things...... The only way my writing a letter would get anywhere or any result that I cannot currently pursue on my own is if I were to HIRE a legal firm and threaten REAL legal action, or, somehow, get my name in the papers and stir up a sh*tstorm that the bad publicity would force them to respond, but am I really going to do that?  I dont think so, my goal and desire is to be able to go to AC and KNOW that the VP I am playing is fair and legit.  But even still, suppose I DID write the person you mentioned, and suppose she DID read my letter and pondered my question/issue:  "Is the VP in AC fair and legit and running along Nevada Regs?" What kind of response do you really think I'd get?   C'mon........

[Tedlark]

DaBurglar I told myself I wasn't going to respond to anymore of your posts but this time I cannot keep quiet. How DARE you to compare urgency of the NJ Gaming Commission with acts such as being raped, molested, or assault.  You are way out of line here and do not make such a comparison again.

[DaBurglar]

DaBurglar I told myself I wasn't going to respond to anymore of your posts but this time I cannot keep quiet. How DARE you to compare urgency of the NJ Gaming Commission with acts such as being raped, molested, or assault.  You are way out of line here and do not make such a comparison again.
  HEY...Barney Fife!.....the lady at the front desk whose job is it to take walk in complaints and log reports SPECIFICALLY asks you right off the bat if your visit is to "report an urgent matter involving public safety, or to report a crime such as Felony assault or Burglary" (her words) because, if it is, they tell ya to call the cops.   Kinda like when you call your doctor, the voice initially intones and asks "If this is a life threatening emergency please call 911....etc etc etc"  Last I checked, rape, assault and the like are indeed FELONIES. I wasnt comparing jack sh8t..... if you caefully read my post, I was making a point about the superficial absurdity that now exists in this state bureaucracy's method of doing things. Just leave me alone ok?  You've been upset ever since I called the game of roulette "gay", where my use of the word was meant to convey a exagerated sense of fun and jocularity (not a swipe at ****sexuality), like when everyone cheers and claps on the wheel of fortune JUST BECAUSE EVERYONE ELSE IS DOING IT.... I dont nit pick and torpedoe all your posts.....

[Tedlark]

  I simply responded to your post and you do, in fact, nit pick and torpedo everyone else's posts. You could have ended your response to JT at your first sentence but you decided to show us mere mortals just how intelligent and condescending you really are.

[sam434343]

Daburglar, Hello from Sam it is true what you say, my brother was chief of police and I work with lot of law officers I have not done any of it in over 15years and my bother has been out of it in over 12years. But I can tell you one thing if we put every person in jail for everything they did 30% or more of the population of America would be in jail,dosnt matter who you are only person who I know is perfect is GOD(Jesus)We as human rate what bad people do murder,rape,assault,child molesters,ect.ect.these as being really bad and speeding as being minor,well if you have seen dead kids or adults because of speeding then as officer of the law you look at it from totally different view and some these officers would like to put speeders in jail but because its not a law on the books they cant. This is only one point I could write a whole book on this, but I understand most humans don't get it.This why they have police to tell you what you should do. My point daburglar if see something wrong you keep checking into it, I back you up. Sam

[JT]

[QUOTE=JT]DaBurglar - why don't you simply write to the NJCCC and get clarification on that section of the law and how things are interpreted? My reading of the law is that the situation you describe is not within the regulation, but I admit it's not a well-written section and the interpretation is always up to the agency tasked with enforcing it, so it's THEIR interpretation that matters. They have an obligation to answer that question, so why not pose it to them in writing, and post their written response when you get it back?

The contact info is here: http://njccc.gov/casinos/about/management/index.html

I'd suggest directing your question to Dianna Fauntleroy, Esq., general counsel for the CCC.
 This is a totally sensible and logical thought, and I have thought of doing this many times, but let me clue you in on what is actually going on with the NJ commission..... Each AC Casino has a booth/office on the casino floor devoted to the NJ gaming commission, and up until middle of the year 2008, it was staffed 24/7 by at least two gaming agents, plus a number of roving staff members out on the casino floor during peak times.  When the State Budget went into shcok from the economic collapse around election time 2008, one of the first places they cut was the gaming commission, slashing everything from hiring to hours to you name it.....they prioritized everything they do and are responsible for....now those office/booths on the casino floors are completely empty all the time, the telephones next to the booths that connect you to the commissions hotline are either nonfunctional or lead you to a info line asking you to call ANOTHER number and leave your info/question there.   I have actually attempted many times to VISIT the commissions office in AC, which is located one block south of Resorts on the boardwalk nestled between a antique store and a restaurant.  It rarely is open except for a couple hours each week which are designated as "Open Office Hours" and theoretically are for people like me who have issues or questions.....problem is, when you vist, all they do is log your info and issue and tell you someone will get back to you....if it is a matter of urgency, (like if you were raped or molested or assaulted while on a casino floor) then you are told to call the AC Police (but of course, if such a thing happened you wouldnt be reporting it IN PERSON to the office!  but that is an indication of how utterly ridiculous their mode of operation and staffing currently is...!) Questions and issues regarding supposed casino cheating or failure to follow regs are SO COMMON according to both the desk person I spoke to as well as Casino management personel that the NJ gaming commission is inundated EVERY WEEK with such things...... The only way my writing a letter would get anywhere or any result that I cannot currently pursue on my own is if I were to HIRE a legal firm and threaten REAL legal action, or, somehow, get my name in the papers and stir up a sh*tstorm that the bad publicity would force them to respond, but am I really going to do that?  I dont think so, my goal and desire is to be able to go to AC and KNOW that the VP I am playing is fair and legit.  But even still, suppose I DID write the person you mentioned, and suppose she DID read my letter and pondered my question/issue:  "Is the VP in AC fair and legit and running along Nevada Regs?" What kind of response do you really think I'd get?   C'mon........
[/QUOTE]
Thank you for confirming that you are a conspiracy theorist crank, and not actually a serious or rational person. Calling their complaint line or asking some boothling who works at a desk on the boardwalk is not going to get you an answer. Writing a reasonable, concise letter to a lawyer working for the agency with a question of statutory interpretation is going to get you a response.

You can analyze and perhaps reject the response afterwards, depending on the answer you get, but you cant use the fact that you somehow know you are not going to like their answer as a reason not to pose the question.

Here, you're specifically positing a question about the NJ casino regs, and you have your own interpretation of what the law means. However, you won't bother to actually ask the people who enforce the law what it means, because you presuppose they will give you a fixed answer that will not only conflict with your definitive interpretation of the reg, but might conflict with your theory that the games are rigged.

Sorry, man, but this is where rational people check out.