VP vs. Blackjack

[JolsonFan]

Hi Gang,
According to Sklansky, blackjack  and VP are two of about five casino games in which the player can have a slight edge over the house with optimal play.  Of those two which do you feel is the better game?  I'll give a lean towards VP IF a proper FPDW or Jacks or Better game can be found, especially in a progressive jackpot.

[shadowman]

You can probably make more money at BJ ... for awhile. You can gamble with higher denoms and find good games in many casinos. The problem with BJ is that you can't hide the fact you are counting cards. The casino can count as well and reshuffle or simply ask you leave. So far that hasn't been the case in VP (with a few exceptions). However, the casinos continue to eliminate good plays so VP may not be far behind.

[MikeA]

I've never heard that question asked quite that way before.  Both BJ and VP require perfect play to reach the earnings potentials (forget about card counting in BJ for now.)  JOB was the VP mentioned.  It has a 99.5% return.  That's right in line with 6-deck Blackjack played with common rules (house advantage of .64% compared to around .50% for JOB).  They are virtually equal in terms of EV.So, I would say that it boils down to variance.  JOB has 19% variance.  Blackjack has something around 6% I think.  That would indicate that you could probably play longer on the same amount of money most of the time playing Blackjack.  But, you would PROBABLY not have sessions where you would veer to the north of "even" in BJ as often as you would playing JOB.  Playing low limits, you will most likely get more comps playing VP than playing $5 Blackjack so that will raise the EV on VP.  I don't think you'll make a "bad" decision between these two games.  They are just virtually equal in potential.  The one thing about Blackjack though is that you can improve the EV by card counting.  At times, with a 6-deck game, you can increase YOUR advantage to up to 5% or 6% by backcounting and only playing positive hands.  But, it would require more of a bankroll to pull this stunt and you are risking the Heat that Shadowman eluded to.  You would be risking being backed off the table and possibly trespassed at that casino.If you enjoy the rush of "beating the house" then you'll get your adrenalin pump with advantage play in Blackjack, no doubt about it.  If you just wish to exercise your skills at a game, either will work out for you.

[Minn. Fatz]

I don't play enough BJ to make a personal comparison (usually I only play when I get match play from the casino). But you don't have to count cards in VP and I have never been backed off a VP machine or seen anyone backed off for consulting a strategy card. For those reasons, choosing between the two, I'd have to go with VP.
 
Unfortunately for me I've also recently discovered table poker . . .

[likeaw]

On recent trip to Harrahs.....I play dueces wild...they reduced their payback from 99.73 to about 95-97%....man am I not happy. May stop playing there.
 
Are they getting greedy or what? Anyone else notice this?

[royal flush]

yes they are the most greedy the only playable deuces wild is 3/5/10 playat rio 98.91% only play enough to get diamond card alot of comps. 3000 points in a day or 10000 in a year gets you diamond card for alot of free rooms food ect then play 1 point on future visits card good for 1 year

[CHITOWN]

Yes,the local Harrah's here(Joliet,IL)seems to knock paytables down every time I visit,about once a month.I find this most distressing,since I really like the property,I feel it is the best in the Chicago area & they have a large seletion of VP games in all denominations.However,some of their current paytables are abysmal.I E-mailed the slots director for what's up,there can't be THAT many skilled players that are knockin' em dead,why are you shortpaying your VP players?Their (generic,I'm sure) answer was that they are in line with all the other area casino paytables.Not so!I will visit them on my 50th B-day soon,and if the bad paytables are still there,I will have to consider not playing there again,and will tell them so(not that they would be much concerned).C'mon Harrah's,give us a good gamble,I really don't want to go to Grand Vic,Hollywood or Empress!!

[jdstuhlmann]

I am a blackjack dealer and the one thing that no one is discussing is how the other players effect your play on bj.  When I "broke in" as a dealer we dealt only single deck.  I have dealt to some of the best counters and you are right the house will back them off or "flat bet" them  That means that whatever their first bet is, that will remain there wager for the whole deck.  I think you are right that you may last longer on bj but unless you press your bet you will never have the opportunity for a big win like vp.  And as a prior pit boss in Vegas, you are right as far as comps are concerned.  You will get more for vp than bj unless you are a green check player or better.

[MikeA]

I am a blackjack dealer and the one thing that no one is discussing is how the other players effect your play on bj.I do not disagree with any of your statements except the first one you made.  Even that, I qualify.  There are two ways that the number of players or the OTHER player's knowledge of the game can impact you effectiveness as a Blackjack player.  As for the number at the table, if you are an advantage player and know when to do so, you might wish to get more money on the table by playing two or more spots, with possibly a lesser than normal bet on each spot to avoid heat.  Or you might wish to eat the low counts by increasing the number of spots played with minimum bets.  Obviously you cannot do that if the table is crowded.As for the "mistakes" others make, those offset.  Their incorrect plays will help you as often as hurt you.  However, if you as a player let those mistakes get to you and impact your ability to concentrate, then I will agree with you that others can impact your play.It is all I can do to keep a straight face when some Einstein at third base goes through mental gymnastics trying to decide whether or not to take a hit on a 16 vs dealer Ten for fear of taking the dealer's "bust card"!  Or when I get chewed out for hitting a soft 18 when the dealer is showing a 9 or higher!  BJ is as bad or worse than VP when it comes to players KNOWING Basic Strategy.  I would be shocked to learn that more than 1% of those playing BJ actually knew BS and played it perfectly.  Furthermore, I would be surprised if more than 10% of the players even knew about Basic Strategy!  That leaves 90% of the players (and nothing to back those figures up!) who play VOODOO strategy....mental telepathy, remote viewing, chicken entrails...whatever.Folks, God or Darwin (depending on your metaphysical tendencies) gave you a brain.  Use it.  Learn BS for whatever casino game you are determined to play!

[royal flush]

if they all did no game would be beatable like 21 or vp the casinos would fight back my making poor paytables in vp or poor rules in 21. I like live poker which played correctly gives 100+ ev