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How much do we still not know?
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BillyJoe
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3198
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm
Re: How much do we still not know?
WOW, Sam. I am looking for a good attorney in Indiana, since I fired the one that I had last week. Do you know any ?
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sam434343
- Senior Member
- Posts: 259
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 3:26 pm
Yes, Billjoe, (lol) I do have four(personal friends that came to my wedding years ago) lawyers but they don't practice in Indiana. I can tell you, I don't have to pay them to work for me they do it for free. Hows that and its no joke! Oh yea it is funny(lawyer)working for free! (lol) Good you don't always have to pay off somebody to do the dirty work! See its the same in Criminal/Law/Police you call your friends and when they see something wrong they arrest that person which has nothing to do with this site. OH! I remember some old case where it cost them thousands/tens of thousand and they were found not guilty well they didnt go to prison/jail(I know they were criminals but lawyers got them off) but they were broke after, there was my joy!
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TsuDoNihm
- Forum Regular
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:21 pm
However, there is a noticeable pause in IGT machines after every 100 hands when they log results.
I've always wondered what that pause was but have never been able to find the reason for it until now. Thanks for clearing up that little mystery for me.
I've always wondered what that pause was but have never been able to find the reason for it until now. Thanks for clearing up that little mystery for me.
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TsuDoNihm
- Forum Regular
- Posts: 56
- Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:21 pm
I don't think I've seen this asked or answered here but please forgive me if its already been addressed.
For arguments sake, lets assume that the claim that a machine can be reseeded or altered in some way that produces "hot" and "cold" streaks, without changing the overall payback, is true.
Why on earth would a casino want to do that? Their overall hold isn't going to change, it would just mean a a small percentage of people would have a great day, while even more would have a terrible day. From a business perspective I would think that the ideal situation for them would be to have as even a distribution of high hands as possible. People that win a little are likely to return, as are people who win a lot. People who lose a little probably will as well, but steep losses are much more likely to discourage people, which is why gambling establishments have experimented with various ways to ease the pain of a bad day.
So what benefit is there to the casino to do this?
For arguments sake, lets assume that the claim that a machine can be reseeded or altered in some way that produces "hot" and "cold" streaks, without changing the overall payback, is true.
Why on earth would a casino want to do that? Their overall hold isn't going to change, it would just mean a a small percentage of people would have a great day, while even more would have a terrible day. From a business perspective I would think that the ideal situation for them would be to have as even a distribution of high hands as possible. People that win a little are likely to return, as are people who win a lot. People who lose a little probably will as well, but steep losses are much more likely to discourage people, which is why gambling establishments have experimented with various ways to ease the pain of a bad day.
So what benefit is there to the casino to do this?
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
There really is no motivation for the casinos. There bottom line is based on percentages. They want to have as large return as possible while still giving people ample entertainment.
One could argue that higher variance machines lead to a few bigger wins that "excite" the customers. Having more variance internal to the RNG could help in this regard. However, there are plenty of high variance games available (DDB, TDB, carnival games, etc.) so it seems unnecessary. Not to mention, why would the game manufacturers like IGT or Ballys care? They already provide lots of high variance games that the casinos can choose to put on the floor
One could argue that higher variance machines lead to a few bigger wins that "excite" the customers. Having more variance internal to the RNG could help in this regard. However, there are plenty of high variance games available (DDB, TDB, carnival games, etc.) so it seems unnecessary. Not to mention, why would the game manufacturers like IGT or Ballys care? They already provide lots of high variance games that the casinos can choose to put on the floor
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ko king
- VP Veteran
- Posts: 670
- Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:13 pm
[QUOTE=shadowman]There really is no motivation for the casinos. There bottom line is based on percentages. They want to have as large return as possible while still giving people ample entertainment.
One could argue that higher variance machines lead to a few bigger wins that "excite" the customers. Having more variance internal to the RNG could help in this regard. However, there are plenty of high variance games available (DDB, TDB, carnival games, etc.) so it seems unnecessary. Not to mention, why would the game manufacturers like IGT or Ballys care? They already provide lots of high variance games that the casinos can choose to put on the floor[/QUO
With all do respect, wny do you place all casinos on a pedestal {A position of high regard or adoration.}, I really don't get it. I can't think of any industry that hasn't been guilty of abusing the system despite laws and regulations. Casinos are corporations many of them very large and while percentages enter into the equation the overall goal is to maximize profits. The days of corporations being sensitive, moral and caring are long gone and have been replaced with a new outlook, "what's the least we can provide to maximize profit and still maintain base". I see where you brought up IGT and Ballys, both cater to the casinos, their customers who by the way have one thing in mind, maximize profits. I don't see IGT, Ballys or the state regulators as running the casino industry, I see them as dependents of the industry. You could argue that as dependents it would be in their best interest to insure the integrity of the industry but I would say it's in their best interest to preserve and protect the appearence of said integrity, after all it's the casinos providing the rain not them.
One could argue that higher variance machines lead to a few bigger wins that "excite" the customers. Having more variance internal to the RNG could help in this regard. However, there are plenty of high variance games available (DDB, TDB, carnival games, etc.) so it seems unnecessary. Not to mention, why would the game manufacturers like IGT or Ballys care? They already provide lots of high variance games that the casinos can choose to put on the floor[/QUO
With all do respect, wny do you place all casinos on a pedestal {A position of high regard or adoration.}, I really don't get it. I can't think of any industry that hasn't been guilty of abusing the system despite laws and regulations. Casinos are corporations many of them very large and while percentages enter into the equation the overall goal is to maximize profits. The days of corporations being sensitive, moral and caring are long gone and have been replaced with a new outlook, "what's the least we can provide to maximize profit and still maintain base". I see where you brought up IGT and Ballys, both cater to the casinos, their customers who by the way have one thing in mind, maximize profits. I don't see IGT, Ballys or the state regulators as running the casino industry, I see them as dependents of the industry. You could argue that as dependents it would be in their best interest to insure the integrity of the industry but I would say it's in their best interest to preserve and protect the appearence of said integrity, after all it's the casinos providing the rain not them.
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BillyJoe
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3198
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm
[QUOTE=shadowman]There really is no motivation for the casinos. There bottom line is based on percentages. They want to have as large return as possible while still giving people ample entertainment.
One could argue that higher variance machines lead to a few bigger wins that "excite" the customers. Having more variance internal to the RNG could help in this regard. However, there are plenty of high variance games available (DDB, TDB, carnival games, etc.) so it seems unnecessary. Not to mention, why would the game manufacturers like IGT or Ballys care? They already provide lots of high variance games that the casinos can choose to put on the floor[/QUO
With all do respect, wny do you place all casinos on a pedestal {A position of high regard or adoration.}, I really don't get it. I can't think of any industry that hasn't been guilty of abusing the system despite laws and regulations. Casinos are corporations many of them very large and while percentages enter into the equation the overall goal is to maximize profits. The days of corporations being sensitive, moral and caring are long gone and have been replaced with a new outlook, "what's the least we can provide to maximize profit and still maintain base". I see where you brought up IGT and Bally's, both cater to the casinos, their customers who by the way have one thing in mind, maximize profits. I don't see IGT, Ballys or the state regulators as running the casino industry, I see them as dependents of the industry. You could argue that as dependents it would be in their best interest to insure the integrity of the industry but I would say it's in their best interest to preserve and protect the appearance of said integrity, after all it's the casinos providing the rain not them.
Well, Ko, I do agree with you that, as large corporations with stockholders, a healthy return to the stockholders is what they seek.
I do, however, give the gaming/casino industry a lot of credit. For the most part, they have figured out how to separate us from our money, while we keep coming back for more. There is no doubt that any casino group would not extend offers, comps or incentives if they did not believe that, ultimately, they would profit from it.
As for providers to the casino industry, the game manufacturers will profit most when the casino industry is profitable and growing. Just like Apple introducing a new "I-something", the game manufacturers want to sell new products that the casino industry believes will drive additional customer play.
Ain't America grand ?
One could argue that higher variance machines lead to a few bigger wins that "excite" the customers. Having more variance internal to the RNG could help in this regard. However, there are plenty of high variance games available (DDB, TDB, carnival games, etc.) so it seems unnecessary. Not to mention, why would the game manufacturers like IGT or Ballys care? They already provide lots of high variance games that the casinos can choose to put on the floor[/QUO
With all do respect, wny do you place all casinos on a pedestal {A position of high regard or adoration.}, I really don't get it. I can't think of any industry that hasn't been guilty of abusing the system despite laws and regulations. Casinos are corporations many of them very large and while percentages enter into the equation the overall goal is to maximize profits. The days of corporations being sensitive, moral and caring are long gone and have been replaced with a new outlook, "what's the least we can provide to maximize profit and still maintain base". I see where you brought up IGT and Bally's, both cater to the casinos, their customers who by the way have one thing in mind, maximize profits. I don't see IGT, Ballys or the state regulators as running the casino industry, I see them as dependents of the industry. You could argue that as dependents it would be in their best interest to insure the integrity of the industry but I would say it's in their best interest to preserve and protect the appearance of said integrity, after all it's the casinos providing the rain not them.
Well, Ko, I do agree with you that, as large corporations with stockholders, a healthy return to the stockholders is what they seek.
I do, however, give the gaming/casino industry a lot of credit. For the most part, they have figured out how to separate us from our money, while we keep coming back for more. There is no doubt that any casino group would not extend offers, comps or incentives if they did not believe that, ultimately, they would profit from it.
As for providers to the casino industry, the game manufacturers will profit most when the casino industry is profitable and growing. Just like Apple introducing a new "I-something", the game manufacturers want to sell new products that the casino industry believes will drive additional customer play.
Ain't America grand ?
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olds442jetaway
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 10751
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:08 pm
[QUOTE=Vman96]You know that I wrote that "week comment" because you said you got a Royal earlier this month. When you forget the positive results, results will become DaBurglar like.
5 Royals in 24 hours? Did he claim to only play single-line when doing it?
Vman, the recent Royal fell in that 120-200,000 range from the last one. Now I haven't had another one since a week or so ago and am about half way now to the 40,000 average. As to the 5 Royals in a day guy, he said they were all on a single line game. I have to figure out the correct way to cite a portion of a quote as above, and then post a reply to it. Other than that, I can get around on the site pretty well. I have to bone up on probability though. Been almost 50 years since I used any of it to any degree.
5 Royals in 24 hours? Did he claim to only play single-line when doing it?
Vman, the recent Royal fell in that 120-200,000 range from the last one. Now I haven't had another one since a week or so ago and am about half way now to the 40,000 average. As to the 5 Royals in a day guy, he said they were all on a single line game. I have to figure out the correct way to cite a portion of a quote as above, and then post a reply to it. Other than that, I can get around on the site pretty well. I have to bone up on probability though. Been almost 50 years since I used any of it to any degree.
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BillyJoe
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3198
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm
[QUOTE=Vman96] I have to bone up on probability though. Been almost 50 years since I used any of it to any degree.
Start by listening to Johnnie Mathis "Chances Are"
Start by listening to Johnnie Mathis "Chances Are"
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olds442jetaway
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 10751
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:08 pm
Well, " Chances Are " would certainly be the right era, but it might be a little advanced for me at this point. I'd better start with Dean Martin....." Who's got the action" first. As a matter of fact, there are a bank of those machines right in back of my VP section. I am sure that after a few hours of listening, I can master that lesson and move on to " Chances Are".................
