AC Video Poker Imploding

[Tedlark]

Vman I agree with everything that you said. As far as setting the percentages that low would only hurt them in keeping players around; if the machines aren't paying out a decent enough percentage to the players then the machines would be taking less money in. I would rather pay out a bigger percentage if this meant that my take would increase.

[Tomcat1569]

Nothing fishy here either. Hit a dealt progressive royal at Caesars AC last nite -- hardly material for conspiracy theorists. If anything the AC casinos should want their patrons to win MORE and have nice stories to bring home with them, not the reverse!

[shadowman]

What's that sound I hear?

Is that the crumpling of a tin foil hat?

[Quad Deuces]

I thought it was *crickets*

[DaBurglar]

Actually, I absolutely CRUSHED the Taj this week at VP, and had 9 handpay jackpots, 6 of which were top prize awards, plus innumerable tickets out, and came home up well over 5 figures, all off of $200 bonus slot dollars.   So, frankly... I think maybe it's you.

.....  What were you playing?   How much were the hand pays?   What do you mean by "6 were the top prize award?   "innumerable" tickets out?   Wtf does that mean??   All off of 200 bonus slot dollars? Frankly I dont think you will mind if I choose not to believe this, but even still CONGRATS! I do mean Congrats to Boopsahoy and I have no doubt what she said is true, and I did address the young man who hit the Caesars Progressive in the thread he started elsewhere.  I was in AC this time from July 16 thru July 26  (after Taking a break of 6 weeks like so many people implored.)   I finished Down for the trip about $1400, playing ONLY 25 cent games, and almost all of that was played on 9/6 JOB  8/5 Bonus POKER, 9/6/5 DB and 9/6/4 DDB......in other words I played simply the very best games available in AC. With the exception of Harrahs, every casino I played in and every session I played during this time I finished DOWN.    ANd even in Harrahs I had some ridiculously bad experiences, such as losing 290 bucks on 3 handed Quick Quad 8/5 JOB in a session where I earned ONLY 68 tier credits (that is $680 coin in and I lost 290!)    I had something like 21 hands in a row at one point of absolutely ZIP on all three hands, and again, this was HARRAH's, one of the two AC joints that hasnt hit the panic button  Anyway, in addition to my playing, during this 10 day span I spent COUNTLESS hours steadfastly watching and observing, and talking with players, managers and I even spent the morning of Tuesday July 23 in the Casino Control Branch HQ on Tennessee Avenue talking at length with the only two employees in the entire bulding,  a manager/field agent by the name of "paul" and a younger woman named Beth who seemed to be administrative and a gatekeeper.  This is in contrast to the time back in early Spring when I went to this place and was greeted only by a elderly woman who told me if I had any "Felonies" to report like Assualt, Rape or Drug Dealing to Call AC Metro Police, otherwise I would have to come back when agents were there to discuss my "gaming issues".......I'm sure Tedlark remembers that because he tore me a new one when he thought I was making fun of muggings and rapes when In reality I was illustrating the pathetic state of gaming enforcement and staffing in NJ by reporting what I saw!! Anyhow, "Paul" was extremely helpful and set the record straight on How things work in AC, and I STRONGLY urge VMAN (and anyone else who seems interested in this issue) to either visit the office yourself or try and call them to get the info I received.  They will give you the name and number(s) of any one of their attorneys who will answer ay question that they themselves cannot answer.....its a good deal. I was able to verify with Paul that AC slot return % ranges 83 to 99 by law.   I verified that, as far as New jersey and AC is concerned, Video Poker machines are in fact just another form of SLOT machine.   I then asked paul to reconcile the Paytable odds on a typical Video poker/slot machine with the percentages allowed for slots in general.   He stated very directly and firmly that each casino CAN do whatever they want to do with any given machine, slot, VP or otherwise, so long as it falls at or above 83% return over time to the player.  He then stated that, WHILE IT IS ONLY HIS OPINION, most casinos leave the higher denomination Video poker/SLot machines ($1 and up) as is, they simply keep the paytable odds as the final word, but it is possible they could change this up to from time to time.   With the lower denom Video Poker/slots, its is wide open he said......and if you think about it this makes sense too.    With regular slots, we know casinos keep more of the lower denom revenue than the higher denom slot revenue.  It follows that they would do the same with VP :slots: as well!  Made a whole lot of sense to me especially in light of what i have seen and experienced as of late. When I was there this past week I did not see one single handpay, and believe me I was looking.   Now granted, I only played the 25 cent level VP so my crappy results personally can be explained there.....but I spoke with and chatted up dozens of players every chance I got and no one had any significant wins to report.    What none of you seem to want to address or discuss, especially when you try using business logic such as "well if they want to attract customers why dont they blah blha blah....:", is the following: AC has lost HALF of its gaming revenue since 2008......HALF!  50%!     They have during this time SLASHED paytables in addition to funking around with some of their VP machines dealings......Their business is going down the tubes!

[Vman96]

FYI, 9/6/5 DB is a bad game. 97.8%

Also, with the economic downturn and legalization of games in Pennsylvania and Maryland, it's not that surprising that AC has lost half their revenue since 2008.

[DaBurglar]

FYI, 9/6/5 DB is a bad game. 97.8%

Also, with the economic downturn and legalization of games in Pennsylvania and Maryland, it's not that surprising that AC has lost half their revenue since 2008.
  Yeah, That's why I said "The best games AC has to OFFER", I didnt say 9/6/5 Db was in itself a good game, but if you want to play Double bonus in AC thats the best you are going to find!   And incidentally, the other games I play in AC, like 9/6 JOB at the 25 cent level is extremely rare, there are only 15-20 machines in the entire CITY sprinkled throughout a few casinos, and the line to play them is always there!    And 8/ 5 Bonus poker is only available at RESORTS, but the place is full of them so you can always get this game.    But the point is AC paytables suck, and routinely, if you talk to dealers or cabbies they will tell you that people in general do not win in AC, and people complain to them "they dont win in AC".   So the question begs, if AC is in such bad shape, regardless of what caused it, why are they not now LOOSENING up EVERYTHING to get back all the people and business they lost?   Why are they responding to this crisis by stubbornly maintaining the same gaming strategy?  And even though the competition and economy have made things difficult, there is NO way to explain or excuse losing HALF your business......AC is in this position because they are incompetent and/or stubbornly arrogant.....If they were doing things right, giving people excellent service and experiences, and most of all, if they had games that were loose enough to attract people on a steady basis there is little doubt they would be in better shape.    I mean, look what the current strategy has done for them>?   Obviously whatever they are doing now is NOT the answer.  In fact it is still killing them!   

[DaBurglar]

Here's another thing for consideration: Monday Morning, July 22, I checked out of the taj and went to use the bathroom in the lobby before I left.  I wheeled thru the door and was immediately overwhelmed by a stench just inside the restroom doorway.....I stopped and sniffed and discovered the floor was belittered with blobs of Vomit, and I had inadvertently wheeled right thru and over some of it!    Needless to saY  I was mad.....but it gets worse.   I went to the dispenser to get some towels to wipe my wheels off, but lo and behold the Taj's paper towel dispensers were EMPTY!   ALL Three of them in the mens Bathroom!     I could not believe it.....I now lost it! I rolled out into the lobby and made a scene.   I announced that the restroom was contaminated with bodily fluids and that management had better get someone over here to clean my wheels or I would call the health department!   (I am serious I really did....) After 10 minutes a maid and a janitor finally helped me clean the puke off my wheels but the point of this whole thing is clear:  AC and specifically the Taj, which used to be such a paragon of service and luxury and class, is so far gone that stuff like this happens and continues to happen, getting worse instead of better.    The maid who cleaned my wheels said the reason there were no paper towels is the management decided recently to get rid of them and install electronic AIR hand dryers, one of the reasons being "prostitutes were coming in and stealing all the paper towels ".....!   She actually told me this!!!   Now if it were true, and I can see it happening, it is typical of what they have ALLOWED to happen in AC.    Here is the kicker:   At no point in this fiasco did ANY manager or staff person, or anyone, come up to me and apologize or otherwise try to smooth things over with me.....NOTHING!   Not a word......that says it all folks. 

[Tedlark]

why are they not now LOOSENING up EVERYTHING to get back all the people and business they lost? Why are they responding to this crisis by stubbornly maintaining the same gaming strategy?




Gee, wasn't this something I said recently?

[DaBurglar]

why are they not now LOOSENING up EVERYTHING to get back all the people and business they lost? Why are they responding to this crisis by stubbornly maintaining the same gaming strategy?




Gee, wasn't this something I said recently?
  Yes I believe you did, so score one for tedlark.   I personally dont understand why more people are not saying or advocating this especially here on this forum. I can understand the people who won recently, like boopsahoy, perhaps not wanting to bad mouth the place she just won at (the taj) and besides, boops is okay and even keeled/levelheaded and she clearly plays at a level far above me in terms of bankroll and denomination.   But this I think falls in line with what I am saying about return % and Video Poker versus slot machines.....people playing the higher denominations will experience the customary higher return % associated with those denominations, thus translating into more hits and more wins.   Since I have only played 25 cent since going to AC, I have experienced a return/loss % akin to what 25 cent slots typically pay (90-92%)  In Vegas, obviously denomination does not (or is supposed to NOT) make a difference in Video Poker, and my previous 20 years plus of playing in Vegas has yielded such starkly different results compared to the experience in AC.   It has to be something more than sheer luck or chance or whatever....it is something systemic, and if any of you have or had played a lot in BOTH markets I am sure you'd see what I am talking about.