What is the liklihood of Casino cheating at VP?

[Tedlark]

  Thats right billyjoe; pucker up, pucker up...

[DaBurglar]

  Actually, there is a Mooselips, Wisconsin.. And a rather famous lip balm that they sell in Alaska called..... MooseLips.  (nothing to do with VP... sorry)
  Bullwinkle rules......   

[Tedlark]

  And to think I thought you prefered Daffy Duck?

[spxChrome]

if it exists (and I say "IF"), it would be at the IGT level. if a customer like CET orders VP machines a certain way, that is what they will deliver.

This is true and good luck getting them to tell you how the RNG works. We can read how it is suppose to work but nobody but IGT knows how it works before draw or after the draw. But I bet they can tell a casino how much profit they plan to make if they get this chip over the next chip. It is pretty obvious what is going on since we are all having the same results during the same time frame.

[ko king]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] if it exists (and I say "IF"), it would be at the IGT level. if a customer like CET orders VP machines a certain way, that is what they will deliver.

This is true and good luck getting them to tell you how the RNG works. We can read how it is suppose to work but nobody but IGT knows how it works before draw or after the draw. But I bet they can tell a casino how much profit they plan to make if they get this chip over the next chip. It is pretty obvious what is going on since we are all having the same results during the same time frame.

[/QUOTE]
That's pretty much what I've been saying, we read about how the game is supposed to work as far as payback percentages , odds and statistics but when has IGT or any casino endorsed any of these figures?

[chucknorris5]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] if it exists (and I say "IF"), it would be at the IGT level. if a customer like CET orders VP machines a certain way, that is what they will deliver.

This is true and good luck getting them to tell you how the RNG works. We can read how it is suppose to work but nobody but IGT knows how it works before draw or after the draw. But I bet they can tell a casino how much profit they plan to make if they get this chip over the next chip. It is pretty obvious what is going on since we are all having the same results during the same time frame.

[/QUOTE]

The more I read about the experiences of other video poker players the more suspicious I become. Of course, no one is making us play. As a general rule, if I have suspicions that someone is cheating me, I usually avoid any further contact with them. I wonder how long it will take serious video poker players to opt to quit playing the game.

[chucknorris5]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] if it exists (and I say "IF"), it would be at the IGT level. if a customer like CET orders VP machines a certain way, that is what they will deliver.

This is true and good luck getting them to tell you how the RNG works. We can read how it is suppose to work but nobody but IGT knows how it works before draw or after the draw. But I bet they can tell a casino how much profit they plan to make if they get this chip over the next chip. It is pretty obvious what is going on since we are all having the same results during the same time frame.

It is noteworthy that the "Godfather of Video Poker", Bob Dancer in his January 14th article laments the degradation of video poker from what it used to be.

[ko king]

[QUOTE=spxChrome] [QUOTE=billyjoe] if it exists (and I say "IF"), it would be at the IGT level. if a customer like CET orders VP machines a certain way, that is what they will deliver.

This is true and good luck getting them to tell you how the RNG works. We can read how it is suppose to work but nobody but IGT knows how it works before draw or after the draw. But I bet they can tell a casino how much profit they plan to make if they get this chip over the next chip. It is pretty obvious what is going on since we are all having the same results during the same time frame.

It is noteworthy that the "Godfather of Video Poker", Bob Dancer in his January 14th article laments the degradation of video poker from what it used to be.[/QUOTE]
My guess is Bob Dancer is talking about lowered paytables and comps. My complaint is that I could walk into a casino in this area log 125K hands playing machines that say the paytable is 98.98% and end up with an actual payback of around 95%. I know why I'd be at that 95% figure also, I would come up short on premium pay hands/quads. What's really going on in my case is easy to identify because I play $2 denomination and always use my players card. I can sit down at the end of the year with my win/loss statement, take my W2-G's and personal records then refer to the odds and statistics and see where I fell short, almost Identical results. I will be missing quad aces w/kicker (a $4K hand), quad aces (a $1,600 hand), quad 2's.3's and 4's w/kicker (a $1,600 hand) all of which require a W2-G be issued so those hands are easy to track and stick out the most.

[olds442jetaway]

[QUOTE=spxChrome] [QUOTE=billyjoe] if it exists (and I say "IF"), it would be at the IGT level. if a customer like CET orders VP machines a certain way, that is what they will deliver.

This is true and good luck getting them to tell you how the RNG works. We can read how it is suppose to work but nobody but IGT knows how it works before draw or after the draw. But I bet they can tell a casino how much profit they plan to make if they get this chip over the next chip. It is pretty obvious what is going on since we are all having the same results during the same time frame.

[/QUOTE]

The more I read about the experiences of other video poker players the more suspicious I become. Of course, no one is making us play. As a general rule, if I have suspicions that someone is cheating me, I usually avoid any further contact with them. I wonder how long it will take serious video poker players to opt to quit playing the game.[/QUOTE]

     Well, at Mohegan Sun in Ct. only a skeleton crew of die hard vp players remain myself being one of them. I have however, as a way of self preservation, switched to lower denomination games. When you look at your own results from the past year and about 800k hands and see Royals and other premium hands only coming in about 20% of what they should be and you routinely get dud streaks on 9/6 job games in the 20-35 range, you know something is wrong, you just aren't privey to what. In the meantime, the casino is going crazy installing the latest and greatest animated slot machines for all of the (and I hate to say it) zombies who love to play them. At best these return 92% and at worst they return in the low 80's. The comps however, can run 10 times or more what vp players get playing the same dollars, so it is no wonder people forget about how much they are losing and enjoy the comps given out on regular slot play.

[DaBurglar]

Wow, some great, interesting posts in this thread, and I am starting to feel at least a little vindicated, that other players at other markets (besides AC, but also including others at AC) are seeing the "funky" results that I have seen, in the form of long, repeated cold streaks and return percentages well below what paytables imply.    KO KING:    Your game of 98.9% that gave you a 95% after 125,000 hands, I can understand your frustration....but actually this SPECIFIC example is not quite in the realm of abysmal that I have been talking about, nor is it as bad as what I believe YOU think is happening as well.....a 95% return after "only" 125k hands on 98% machine is not all that shocking, unless you received that same return or lower year after year, OR if you had played 1,250,000 hands instead, then  that example would standout.   I think you are 100% correct in your conclusions though, and when your combine your results with what everyone else is seeing then it fits!       I guess I am just saying I would actually be :happy: if I had a 95% return on my play the last 3 years in AC, because my results, and my duds, and my LACK of premium hands, has my overall total return percent so low it defies everything you;d expect!   I laready mentioned in other posts how I have seen dud rates in the 65 to 70 percent range, and higher, on hand volumes in high 6 figures approaching 7 figures!   When the normal dud rate should be 55%!       And the actual return percentage is even below the lowest SLOT return percentage for me on certain Video Poker games and casinos in AC. Its unbelievable but as I have said and now know, I am not alone....something is way way skewed in VP land, in a way that NEVER existed before.   It is noteworthy that the "Godfather of Video Poker", Bob Dancer in his January 14th article laments the degradation of video poker from what it used to be.
What exactly is Bob dancer saying is happening in Video Poker these days?   Surely if he is saying things have deteriorated in the last several years, this has weight and import? If he is attributing it solely to poor paytables and comps, if that is the extent of his observations, then I do not agree......something more is afoot.   But if Bob has indeed cited other changes or reasons for VP degradation, I am very interested to know