Casino upgrades = losing players

[DezJeep]

Several casinos in my area have "upgraded" or built additions to the casino/hotel.  Seems to me like every time one of these places "improves", the machines just STOP paying.  I can't help to think that during their "construction" they change the payouts so they can recover all the money they just spent on the construction.  I'm serious.  Harrahs used to pay pretty good until all of the improvements.  Now, nothing.  Valley View just completed some "improvements" and now you can't win there to save your life.  Just walking around the casino I haven't seen a hand pay in weeks.  Is it just me being a disgruntled players or am I onto something here?  

[Lucky Larry]

Have the pay tables changed since before the construction? If not I would think it just a "lack of hits" maybe due to reduced numbers of players. I don't remember where you play at but has the weather had an impact?

Speaking of numbers of players-we recently visited our favorite haunt on Valentine's Friday and Saturday night. The place had huge crowds which we don't see mid-week. When we inquired to casino personnel about the crowds several points were mentioned: its Mardi Gras season and lots of crews were having their gatherings, the weather is getting better (here in Texas and La.) but mainly people were beginning to get and spend their Income Tax returns.   

Sorry I'm off topic....

[DaBurglar]

well, in my opinion, this is yet another tangent on the universal theme of "Do Casinos EVER rig their machines?"Firstly, all gambling machines are, in the truest sense of the word, "RIGGED" because in fact, the casino has an established and undeniable edge.   As players, we accept that the machines we play are "rigged" in this manner....furthermore, all states with casino gambling establish guidelines and regulations that define and delineate exactly how and in what manner and to what mathematical extent the casinos may "rig" their machines, so that we players may know, going in, just how much of a disadvantage we are at before we plop our funds into the gaming trough.That being said, we now face the dilemma of whether or not casinos EVER exceed the level of "rigged-ness" they are allowed by law, to make their games even more difficult for us to receive ANY type of payback.    DOES THIS EVER HAPPEN????    That is the question for the ages as it relates to us regular casino patrons.....The truth is, we really do not know, one way or the other......we can choose to believe either yes or no that casinos may, from time to time, set their machines in excess of allowed levels of house advantage (aka "rigged-ness")     Just because there are rules and regs saying they cannot do this does not mean it never ever happens....nor does abysmal playing results on a machine automatically mean that machine is set beyond the limits......It is a matter of faith.......but here is one last point to consider if you are of the opinion that casinos NEVER EVER CHEAT:In most criminal courts in the USA (and the world), the testimony of Police Officers (and, by extension federal agents and other officers of regulatory bodies) is almost always accepted as 100% true.....its one of those incontrovertible truths we accept yet never really know or explain WHY......we as a society ASSUME that, in the vast majority of cases, when we here testimony from an officer of the law that it is true.    During the investigative phase leading up to trial, we likewise assume officers always act righteously and do the right and proper thing, nothing dishonest or wrong.Now, how many of you really truly BELIEVE that is the case?  That cops never lie or pull any sh*t??See my point?

[olds442jetaway]

319,500 hands without a Royal and counting at Mohegan Sun. This age old question may never be answered. Two things bother me the most. First, vp and slots are lumped together when the payout results are made available to the public. I doubt they ever go below their " allowed " 85% return. The unanswered question for me is do they have some vp machines fall into that 85% number even though paytables would be in the mid to high 90's? The second part that bothers me is an answer I got from an old time slot attendant. When I asked him if the machines followed a strictly rng setup program his answer was " partial ". He wouldn't elaborate and I didn't askhim to since I didn't want him to get into any trouble. He instead referred me to the published payback results which I was aware of already. If I remember, they were in the 91-92% range for quarter games. vp and slots combined. I really wish they were required to separate them out, but I doube that will ever happen.

[DaBurglar]

319,500 hands without a Royal and counting at Mohegan Sun. This age old question may never be answered. Two things bother me the most. First, vp and slots are lumped together when the payout results are made available to the public. I doubt they ever go below their " allowed " 85% return. The unanswered question for me is do they have some vp machines fall into that 85% number even though paytables would be in the mid to high 90's? The second part that bothers me is an answer I got from an old time slot attendant. When I asked him if the machines followed a strictly rng setup program his answer was " partial ". He wouldn't elaborate and I didn't askhim to since I didn't want him to get into any trouble. He instead referred me to the published payback results which I was aware of already. If I remember, they were in the 91-92% range for quarter games. vp and slots combined. I really wish they were required to separate them out, but I doube that will ever happen.Olds, we need to meet up when you head to AC.....keep me posted as to the details of when and where this will happen for you.As for your results at Mohegan, I would stay out of there if I were you......I have never fully trusted the two Conecticut casinos and they are only 1 hour from my house!   Thats why I prefer Vegas and AC (er, well I did prefer AC but now that too is over as far as Video Poker goes....I use AC now solely for Real Poker, and any VP I play in AC is strictly to keep Minimal comps and previously established player card levels at a minimum so I get free rooms so I can show up when I want, play Poker and then crash in my room.The fact that Mohegan lumps SLots and VP together essentially tells me they operate just like AC does on that account, and dont forget, Mohegan owns ResortsAC....Casinos are in desperate shape these days due to their abject greed and past misdeeds in mismanaging and squandering all the success they had.   They yearn to get back to the gravy train days when it rained cash, but the only way they can even get close to such levels is to go to extreme lengths and SQUEEEEEEZE all the drops of blood they can from the stones they have left. which includes taking video poker players like us and  adjusting the game settings to either deal more random crap/non paying hands, or to deliberately exclude certain hand results from the possible results pool.     The first action is arguably allowable under current AC/New Jersey regulations which stipulate VP and Slots are the same......the second action is cheating but is not at all likely to be discovered by gaming regulators, and even if it is, in today's environment, it would never result in anything more than a warning and instructions to reset the game to the proper result pool.