Jacks or Better Strategy Question

[Vman96]

Can anyone give me an example of a 100% plus single line quarter VP game in Vegas?   I would go there and play it just so I could say I did...

You didn't read my Vegas trip report? I played "full pay" deuces there (100.76% max) on Day 3 at Sam's Town Las Vegas. I was playing for ten nickels a hand, but they have quarters there too. The key is that four of a kind pays 5 for 1. Since it pays more for quads than a full house, you obv don't hold two pair like you should when quads/boat both are 4 for 1.

A full strategy is here:
full strategy

Here's the simple strategy that returns 100.71%:
simple strategy

Sam's Town VPFree2 listing

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[BillyJoe]

Can anyone give me an example of a 100% plus single line quarter VP game in Vegas?   I would go there and play it just so I could say I did...
Not sure if you will find that at any 'strip' casino.

[FloridaPhil]

That's pretty awesome.  Is this  a Sam's Town thing, or do they have it off strip at other casinos?   I feel like I could play that game for weeks at a time...  Does anyone have 10/6 DDB any more?

[OTABILL]

That's pretty awesome.  Is this  a Sam's Town thing, or do they have it off strip at other casinos?   I feel like I could play that game for weeks at a time...  Does anyone have 10/6 DDB any more?

When we were at Red Rock last June I believe they had 10/6 DDB.

[Vman96]

Not sure if you will find that at any 'strip' casino.

Grrr, did you not read my TR either? That was a complete fluke/paytable error though. lol

And Phil, 10/6 DDB exists and "full pay" deuces exist at Palms for quarters, which is an easy shuttle ride and walk from Bally's.

It also exists at most Stations Casinos, including Red Rock, like OTABILL mentioned. If you have a car, Red Rock is a very nice place to visit. Red Rock also offers "full pay" deuces along with 10/6 DDB.

You can search Vegas casinos by game variant at VPFree2

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe]

Not sure if you will find that at any 'strip' casino.

Grrr, did you not read my TR either? That was a complete fluke/paytable error though. lol

[/QUOTE]
I figured it would be gone by the time Florida got to Vegas ..

[Vman96]

Yeah, you're probably right. And I don't think we've convinced him to make a trip to Vegas just yet. But we've got the idea started.

[BobDancer]

It is true that Full Pay Deuces Wild returns more than 100% --- but that's a very small part of what I am talking about. Those games are available for quarters and lower only, at a very few casinos, and the casinos that offer them penalize you for playing them --- by lower slot club returns, sometimes not eligible for promotions, and often you get no mailers if that's all you play.

I'm speaking of games where the return on the game (factored by your accuracy level) + the slot club + promotions + mailers exceed 100%. Such games are available in most jurisdictions, at least occasionally.

For example, I play 99.65% 9/6 DDB Quick Quads at the South Point on 2x point days (which adds 0.60%). I probably average $150K coin-in ($1 Ten Play at $60 per play) I receive small mailers (usually $20 x 4).

Neglecting the mailers, I calculate this at 99.65% + 0.60% = 100.25% x $150,000 = $750 expected win. I call that playing with an advantage. There are swings, of course, and I may well have a score of plus or minus $10,000 or more during such a session. Those don't matter to me. They are simply what you need to put up with if you're going to play the game. On average, I come out ahead because I'm playing with an advantage.

2x points are only available 1 or 2 days a month there. If you only play big on such days, they'll restrict you. So you need to play NSU or some other game during the month. This is a 99.73% game with a 0.30% slot club --- so it's basically breakeven. But it keeps your ability alive to play big on 2x point days.

Sometimes other promotions are available at the same time. In May, for example, at the South Point you can usually earn up to $500 in gas cards during the month. I play more than enough on a 2x point day to get them, so that increases my return on that day from $500 to $1250.

At other casinos there are other ways to come out ahead. Some casinos have drawings and you need to factor in your chances of winning money there. Some casinos offer gift cards or other convertible-to-cash prizes for playing. The Palms, for example, sometimes offers Visa cards where you get a $100 card for $40,000 coin-in (you keep your points). Assuming you value these the same as cash, this adds 0.25% to your return.

Some casinos offer invitational tournaments where you can figure your EV as $50, or $500, or $5000 or whatever (depending on the invitation) for your normal amount of play. If the tournament adds $500 in value and you normally play $50,000 coin-in while you're there, this adds 1% to your equity --- whether you actually end up with $0 or $25,000. Competent players calculate their advantage BEFORE they sit down and play. How they actually did this particular day is largely irrelevant --- assuming you have the bankroll to withstand the swings.

I hope this explains what I'm talking about.


Bob

[chattycattty]

I do something similar playing at CET properties. I do not keep detailed records b/c for me it would take the fun out of the game. I do know that last year as a 7 star grinder, we lost just under $15,000. Most of this was due to my wife playing slots. We play on the same card. We finished the year with just over 250,000 tier credits between us. I play mainly 9/6 JOB or 8/5 BP, occasionally some DDB and some different variations of DW on occasion.

Losing almost $15,000 sounds like a lot of money but what we got in return outweighed our gambling losses. We received 11 round trip airfares for my wife and I, two of which were 1st class. We also received 78 free nights lodging, over 1/2 of which were suites. We were able to visit, Atlantic City, Reno/Tahoe, New Orleans, Windsor Canada, Tunica, Laughlin, Vegas, and our home property of Bossier City, La.

I can think of at least 10 free concerts we went to last year. Received 4 free ski lift tickets at Lake Tahoe Heavenly Resort and a free Tahoe Star yacht cruise for my wife and I as well as a free horse and buggy ride in New Orleans.. Additionally, free food at CET restaurants, buffets, diamond lounges and room service would have cost us in the thousands of dollars.

Additionally we received free limo service on each occasion to and from airport to CET property. We also received a variety of free gifts last year such as luggage, numerous bottles of wine, free gas cards and countless other odds and ends. I am sure I am forgetting some things.

Granted much of this stuff I would not pay for anyway. There is no way I would go to a steak house and spend $500, nor would I pay for a limo if it was not complimentary. But it is nice to be treated this way by CET.

I do not know what total value you would put on all the free stuff we receive year in and year out from CET but we do take advantage of many of the perks just as you do when you play at South Point. If we did not like to travel I would probably look into a different slot club.

Now, if I could only get my wife to enjoy video poker as much as I do. Maybe then we could have our cake and eat it to.

[royal flush]

with 250,000 credit 2.5 million coin in at 9/6 job 99.53 expected loss would be about 12,000 with 8/5 bp the loss would be about 25000 so don blame the slots