How do you interpet this?

[spxChrome]

From Nevada Gaming Control Board
Updated 11/22/2010

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2.010(2) – If the device supports draw poker games with switch selectable or menu selectable top awards, list the available ranges of the payback percentages that can be selected.

Now I did not think payback percentages could be selected? Only modified by modifying the paytable?

[Tedlark]

Without looking it up, what does the rest of that section say? Like 2,010, what does it say? 2.010(1), etc...

[BillyJoe]

I believe that the typical modern VP machine comes with selectable pay table elements by game and denomination. These are set by the casino from the available combinations, and ultimately are reflected in the displayed pay table for each game/denom. I believe that "the list of available payback percentages" that they refer to is the calculated Expected Return of the various combinations of selectable pay elements.
 
So, a slot supervisor can instruct his slot tech to set the VP machine to pay, say a 99.5% return, and the machine will set the pay elements for each hand result (FH, Flush, etc)  to correspond to that desired overall return.  

[spxChrome]

Without looking it up, what does the rest of that section say? Like 2,010, what does it say? 2.010(1), etc...

2.010(1) - Describe the methods that can be used to change the device payback percentage (program change, software selectable top award values, etc.).

List and describe hardware selectable device options. What are the differences in theoretical payback percentages for each of the different coin play amounts.Does the device have electronic meters (at least 6 digits) for storing the number of game plays in each category of wager (1 Coin games, 2 Coin Games, etc.) if the difference in theoretical payback percentage is greater than 4% between the min and max coins wagered.

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[spxChrome]

I believe that the typical modern VP machine comes with selectable pay table elements by game and denomination. These are set by the casino from the available combinations, and ultimately are reflected in the displayed pay table for each game/denom. I believe that "the list of available payback percentages" that they refer to is the calculated Expected Return of the various combinations of selectable pay elements.
 
So, a slot supervisor can instruct his slot tech to set the VP machine to pay, say a 99.5% return, and the machine will set the pay elements for each hand result (FH, Flush, etc)  to correspond to that desired overall return.  

Supposedly the casino can not change the payback percentage of a machine or modify paytables. This requires a chip change from what I have been told.

You will notice this if you flip through different denominations on a VP machine. Notice how if you are on .25 denom say 8/5 the last hand showing will not be the hand showing if you flip to $1 9/6. This means each paytable/denom is running a different chip.

If you flip denoms and the last hand showing is the same all the games are on the same chip and will show the last hand played and the paytable will be the same for no matter which denom is selected.

Sometimes you will get them grouped like .05 through .25 runs one chip/paytable .50 - $2 runs a separate.


So this appears to be something new since 2010 to give more control to the casinos payback%.

[Tedlark]

  I've never noticed the hand change when I was changing denominations spx, I'll have to pay more attention to that.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe] I believe that the typical modern VP machine comes with selectable pay table elements by game and denomination. These are set by the casino from the available combinations, and ultimately are reflected in the displayed pay table for each game/denom. I believe that "the list of available payback percentages" that they refer to is the calculated Expected Return of the various combinations of selectable pay elements.

 

So, a slot supervisor can instruct his slot tech to set the VP machine to pay, say a 99.5% return, and the machine will set the pay elements for each hand result (FH, Flush, etc)  to correspond to that desired overall return.  
Supposedly the casino can not change the payback percentage of a machine or modify paytables. This requires a chip change from what I have been told. 
[/QUOTE]
I know for a fact that this is not true, at least with regard to VP machines. I have personally watched a slot tech working on a VP machine, changing the paytables on games from a set of paytables (hence payback percentages) that are available within the machine. No chip replacement was made, as breaking the seal on the chip would require re-certification by NGC. 
 
Once again, I am speaking about Class III VP machines in Vegas. I have no reason to believe that non-tribal properties that are part of the large, multi-state gaming establishments (ie CET, MGM) would operate differently in states other than Nevada. I can not speak for tribal gaming establishments, which are covered by compacts.   

[DougJ]

[Q][/QUOTE]

Supposedly the casino can not change the payback percentage of a machine or modify paytables. This requires a chip change from what I have been told.

You will notice this if you flip through different denominations on a VP machine. Notice how if you are on .25 denom say 8/5 the last hand showing will not be the hand showing if you flip to $1 9/6. This means each paytable/denom is running a different chip.

If you flip denoms and the last hand showing is the same all the games are on the same chip and will show the last hand played and the paytable will be the same for no matter which denom is selected.

Sometimes you will get them grouped like .05 through .25 runs one chip/paytable .50 - $2 runs a separate.


So this appears to be something new since 2010 to give more control to the casinos payback%.



[/QUOTE]

I agree with your observation about which cards are showing when you flip denominations on a specific machine. For example, if I am playing Deuces Wild Bonus, the cards showing for the last hand played at quarters is the SAME as the cards showing as the last hand played at dollars. But, sometimes, as in the locals casino where I play in Vegas, it is a different set of cards displayed for dcllars versus the quarters, but the paytable also changes, as in straight flush paying 15 instead of 9.

[Minn. Fatz]

About all I can contribute is the last time we were at the Golden Nugget downtown, the VP machines that had full-pay paytables "midweek" did not as of Friday morning. I assume that didn't involve swapping out an RNG chip.

But it seems to me the contention is there is some way to "set" the payout for a particular VP machine without changing the paytable. As I and others have pointed out, that would violate several states' gaming regulations and expose VP machine manufacturers, not to mention casinos, to adverse publicity that could possibly drive them out of business. So, unlikely imho.

I suppose I date my last trip to the Nugget tho by mentioning full-pay VP...

[DaBurglar]

Let me ask this again and hope (pray) it does not get ignored, because this is central to what I have been saying about AC video Poker (aka "slot") machines.......We all know that SLOT machine games use an RNG just like Video Poker Machines.....we also KNOW that slot machine payback % falls into a range that has the minimum return dictated by each state (i.e. 83% in New Jersey's case), and the maximum is often dictated too as many states prohibit having any machine that returns 100% or more.....and each casino can (and does) set each slot machine's payback%, sometimes setting machines offering the same game (say, "Stinkin Rich"  or "Cleopatra's Gold") to have different payback%.  I could be playing a stinkin rich game set to return 91% and Tedlark could be sitting right next to me, letting the air out of my tires and putting cigarette ashes in my drink, and playing a stinkin rich game set at 89%...or 93%....or whatever.SO....in New Jersey's case, any casino can (and does) goes in and sets its SLOT games to return something in the range of 83% to 99%.......HOW DOES the casino actually do this?   What settings, buttons, utilities, etc  does it access when it goes into EACH slot machine and sets the payback%?      The answer (from a non-specific general standpoint) is OBVIOUSLY there is something inside the slot machine(s) accessible by a casino slot tech where he sets the value the casino wants the machine to return....and this value OBVIOUSLY is perodically adjusted up or down depending on the casino's business agenda.          This much we all agree on, right??????      To further back this up, consider just what exactly a GAMING ENFORCEMENT agent would be checking if he or she were to periodically audit a casino's machines....if the agent wanted to spot check a machine, obviously (given the total number of machines out there) this has to be a quick and easy process so clearly the agent would simply be looking for the SLOT payback value to ensure its in line with state requirements, and probably eyeball the chip seal to make sure its intact........right?????I will stop here to allow everyone else to catch up and chew on what I just wrote before continuing on to Video Poker (aka SLOT) machines in AC....but it behooves all of us to keep in mind JUST how formidable a task it TRULY is for gaming agencies to actually AUDIT and check the machines in all the casinos within its jurisdiction.....clearly a lot is placed in good faith consideration, and until or unless the agencies have SOLID, CONCRETE reason to believe there is a problem with a particular casino's machines, they dont do much actual checking of machines (too few agents, too many machines, too many OTHER more pressing issues and concerns requiring agency resources to be diverted....etc.)     We place a lot of faith in casinos when we play there......