IS THIS TRUE?

[whyaskwhy]

Interesting. Except - the casino doesn't have to. If that was their approach, and they were able to set VP at a return rate lower than the paytable without triggering a regulation violation, the number of machines on the casino floor would be astounding.

The pay table doesn't dictate the minimally-legal return rate. The tribal compact or the state regulation determines it. And I'm not all that sure that every single machine must return that rate instead of just the casino as a whole.   One high-limit machine could pour tens of millions into the lap of the concubine of a visiting Arab oil sheik, while the rest of us pay for it with inferior return. I'm not in a position to know, but I do know that being born rich gets people not just a free ride, but endless rear-end-kissing in every aspect of their lives.

Look at the number of slot machines on a typical casino floor, most at some abysmal return rate. Have you EVER seen ALL slot machines being played at the same time? I haven't.

San Diego is an underserved market with only three Indian casinos nearby. They're jam-packed on most weekend nights. Also, I remember when Vegas bounced back a few years after 911. The strip finally became became the "open 24 hours" city that it long bragged about -- until the credit crisis. The south end of the strip had reasonably affordable rooms and was pretty lively on a Saturday evening.

I believe that the reduction of available VP in most casinos is a trend that is the function of the changing demographics. Most VP players were card players of some sort, while a slot player, especially one that plays less than max coin, is just a casual chance taker, looking for that one big score. As the 'older' generation dies out, the shift, I believe, will continue.

I agree. The video-game generation would wager on anything as long as it were marketed as a low-risk, "penny" game. In virtual-reel slots, there's no need to shave points because players don't know what they're doing.

(b) For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game.

http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocume ... entid=2957

Part of my point is that video poker is not representative of any live gambling game. Video blackjack, on the other hand, plays the same as real blackjack. Thus, V blackjack carries a much greater risk to the house. That's why there are so few V blackjack machines.

But I guess ~20 states could make laws about electronic gaming machines solely to deceive people. But if you really believe this, simple answer is..."Quit, right now!"

In a sense, all laws are made to deceive the common folk into believing that the state is their daddy, nanny, protector, and so on ad nauseum. Should we quit storing our money in banks because consumer-protection laws are a sham? No, of course not. Sometimes, there's no recourse but to play the game to it's end.

EDIT: Why play if it's a rigged game? Because of the dearth of opportunity. Over the last hundred and fifty years, a few violent and antisocial types wheedled their way into and squat upon and took for themselves and chiseled everybody else out of every opportunity that arose. Their families came to dominate not just the nation, but created an empire that dominated the world. (Or rather, they took advantage of the good work ethic, intellect, creativity, and resiliance of the European colonists).

Over time, the upper-ups and their minions destroyed the conditions under which legitimate opportunity can arise. The famine of opportuntity got so bad that the rich and powerful had to create fake, shady niches -- like the high-tech stock boom, the credit and housing bubble, and buying housing just to Section 8 it -- so that the elite would still be insulted by a thick transmission belt of petty wannabes (your so-called "middle class").

Little by little, the facts came out about Standard Oil, GM, and nowadays, the classified secrets about World War II. It's really quite eye-opening to read serious and sober reappraisals of history. As aware and informed as I once thought I was, it just really knocked the silly propaganda out of my head to discover what really happened and who gained from it.

Do yourself a favor and read scholarly studies on intelligence testing. Turns out there's no academic disagreement at all about the fact that some people are smarter than others. The disagreement's all political.

Anyway, the casinos don't "cheat" because words are all twisted around and turned against themselves nowadays. They simply take every means to increase their return on investment. To not do so would be criminally negligent. That's the same reason Internet gambling got squashed a decade ago despite the "free trade" propaganda. The management serves the investors -- not the customers.

The growth of nonhuman rights under the 14th Amendment (AKA "corporate personhood" among other issues) is nothing but the stripping of rights (that were previously reserved to the states and to the individuals). It's destroying the ability to prosper of the preexisting humans (the European colonists).

Without opportunity there is no propserity.

Without opportunity, we're all penned into their corral.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=billyjoe]Interesting. Except - the casino doesn't have to. If that was their approach, and they were able to set VP at a return rate lower than the paytable without triggering a regulation violation, the number of machines on the casino floor would be astounding.

The pay table doesn't dictate the minimally-legal return rate. The tribal compact or the state regulation determines it.[/QUOTE]
I think that you may have misunderstood what I was saying. I was referring to the EV as dictated by the paytable, which is a mathematical calculation of the return of that game, with optimum play, over time. This is almost always higher than the mandated minimum as stated in the regulations.

(b) For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game.

http://gaming.nv.gov/modules/showdocume ... entid=2957

Part of my point is that video poker is not representative of any live gambling game.


I have to disagree with you here. I have personally spoken with heads of various state gaming commissions, most recently the heads of both the Louisiana and Mississippi Gaming Commissions, while attending the Southern Gaming Summit in Biloxi, Mississippi in May. I asked very specifically for them to define Video Poker for me with regard to the manner in which cards are presented. They both replied that the cards MUST be presented as if dealt from a shuffled complete card deck. If they are not presented in this random way, that machine and casino is violating the state's gaming regulations.

[DaBurglar]

Oh, yeah, almost forgot. What's this stuff about how video poker has to play like real poker? No it doesn't. All the law says is that video poker has to play like video poker. There's no "raise" button in video poker like real poker. There's no "ante" button in video poker. There's no way to write a marker, or pass and just watch a few rounds being played. Video poker isn't poker. It can never play like real poker.

Law governing casinos is like all other law: tortuous double-talk that gives the appearance of consumer protection while in reality protecting the business from the customer.I might have overlooked this guy's posts the first time around but I am certain I still perused them.......and I think this is where I made my mistake in assuming that the term "VIDEO POKER" actually appears as such in the text of the New Jersey gaming regulations, simply because in this guy's post above, he essentially implies that this is in fact the case.....still my mistake, but hardly (in fact DEFINITELY NOT) a case of me telling "a lie" as someone insinuated a few weeks ago.......

[Tedlark]

  whyaskwhy I guess I'll bite: what does writing a marker have to do with poker in a casino? I know what a marker is but can't a marker also be written for a person playing: craps, roulette, blackjack, pai-gow, or even slots and video poker?   The ante bet in video poker is the number of coins in when the deal button is depressed and a person can "pass" a few hands simply by knowing that the RNG is constantly churning out hands when a person is not playing a video poker machine. I guess short of "seeing" the RNG at work doing this, we just have to take the evil casino's word for it that this process is in fact happening.

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar please do yourself a favor and quit dragging me into your posts, especially when I'm not directly involved. If you quit your little second grade antics such as this I may just take it a little easier on you.

[OTABILL]

  whyaskwhy I guess I'll bite: what does writing a marker have to do with poker in a casino? I know what a marker is but can't a marker also be written for a person playing: craps, roulette, blackjack, pai-gow, or even slots and video poker?   The ante bet in video poker is the number of coins in when the deal button is depressed and a person can "pass" a few hands simply by knowing that the RNG is constantly churning out hands when a person is not playing a video poker machine. I guess short of "seeing" the RNG at work doing this, we just have to take the evil casino's word for it that this process is in fact happening.

Ted regarding passing, I think what he is talking about is where everyone doesn't ante every round (such as No Limit Hold'em) and one can muck without an ante/betting depending upon table position.

[DaBurglar]

  DaBurglar please do yourself a favor and quit dragging me into your posts, especially when I'm not directly involved. If you quit your little second grade antics such as this I may just take it a little easier on you.REALLY?!?!?    FOR REAL?!??   HONEST *****?!?!?   YOu really truly will  "TAKE IT EASY ON ME"?????     Ted, let me clue you in......because you really are clueless.      the only person you need to take it easier on is yourself, because you have inflicted on yourself such damage that whatever self awareness you may have had is long gone.     Stop listening to your little clique of friends inside your head....they are not your friends.You spent the better part of the last 6-8 months stalking me and my posts, the self appointed "protector of the forum from daburglar".......numerous other posters pointed this out to you, but in typical fashion you blow over anything that conflicts with your unreality.    Then You slung one too many mudballs in my direction, calling me a liar, which was WAY WAY WAY out of bounds and of such malicious and absurd intent that there is no way in hell anything you might have imagined I personally did to you previously even comes close to that....You called me a liar, and now you cannot unring that bell....TOO BAD.     Take it easy on me?????    I gave you my email, send me something so I can arrange for you to smack me in the mouth, like "MEN" from where you live settle things .... PLEASE.     Either admit you went too far in calling me a liar, or email me so we can settle this like you want.    You are not going to twist this around and make yourself out to be a victim yet again when if fact you are the....."second grader".   

[Tedlark]

Could be Bill but doesn't every player ante and then there are the blinds? In order see your cards to muck them you need to toss in your ante first, right?

Wow with all these live poker rules I think I'll stay with the video variety. The last time I played live poker was about 3 years ago in Iowa and I only played to ruffle the dealer's feathers a bit. I know you are all saying; not Ted, he's such a great guy. I did it because the guy had a thing for my girlfriend and he got an education on who I was.

[DaBurglar]

I SINCERELY APOLOGIZE TO the rest of the forum for this absurd crap that keeps perpetuating itself.   But I know the discerning folks amongst you know what is really going on here......I just cannot allow such an accusation to pass, mainly because, if it was the other way around and I had done this, I'd probably be in jail....or at the very least, suffering from a severely "smacked mouth"......

[Tedlark]

Daburglar I called you a liar because you lied. One example I gave was about the gaming regulations and you then said you were mistaken and you erred.

I have less than no intention of meeting up with you, ever. I am not the protector of this forum and you just get upset when someone stands up to you. When someone does stand up to you or, take an opposite position of yours, you then go on the attack with name calling and the like. I grew tired of it and I said so.