Video Lottery Terminals

[WVRadar]

Although I live in West Virginia I usually travel to the Meadows in Pennsylvania to play Video Poker.  West Virginia allows businesses to have up to five Video Lottery terminals (10 for fraternal organizations) in their establishments and I sometimes play slots with my wife on these machines.My question is this: does anyone know if the paytables for the poker games on these machines are legitimate, or is the payout determined by some other factor?

[BillyJoe]

Not sure, but if they are Class II machines, they function as a slot machine rather than a Vegas-style VP machine.

[EDC1977]

VLT results are predetermined (usually has a small bingo board in the corner) rather than dependant upon an RNG chip. I've played VP at the Meadows but did not see any VLT poker games. Where are they? I only saw class III machines.

[Vman96]

   VLT results are predetermined (usually has a small bingo board in the corner) rather than dependant upon an RNG chip. I've played VP at the Meadows but did not see any VLT poker games. Where are they? I only saw class III machines.

He said he usually played at the Meadows, which are Class III.

Not all VLTs are Class II anymore. Maryland and Ohio definitely aren't. As for WV, I thought most games were class III, but the max payout on most games is 95%. So if you see 6/5 JoB, then yeah, it's probably Class III. If you see 9/6 JoB, then it probably isn't. Problem is, I think the state allows both.

[FloridaPhil]

We used to have VLT video poker machines at the Florida Hard Rocks before they were allowed to have Vegas Slots.  All the Class II video poker machines that I have seen hold the cards for you on the first deal.  If the machines doesn't, it's probably a Class III machine.  Others may have more information, but that's how I tell the difference.

[WVRadar]

Thanks for everybody's input on this.  I had a feeling that the paytables were not the determining factor in the VLTs payouts.I still would rather play them than slots.  Most of the time I do something useful like sitting at the bar while my wife plays.The only other place I've seen the VLTs (and I do remember seeing a bingo card in the corner) was when we went to the Turning Stone Resort in Verona, New York.  That was our one and only visit to this casino: not sure if it's different now but when we were there they didn't even serve alcohol.

[faygo]

The paytables still indicate how much you get for a given winning hand. Only the method of selection changes.

[Vman96]

We used to have VLT video poker machines at the Florida Hard Rocks before they were allowed to have Vegas Slots.  All the Class II video poker machines that I have seen hold the cards for you on the first deal.  If the machines doesn't, it's probably a Class III machine.  Others may have more information, but that's how I tell the difference.

Yeah, generally Class II machines autohold, so you avoid making wacky things happen. For example, on some Class II machines, if you hold garbage, occasionally you see a "magic genie" appear to change your hand to what you are "supposed" to win.

I really wished I would have taken a pic of one of those when I had the chance, but this was before I was into taking pics. I never could find an image on google of the "genie". I often held garbage to make her appear for my amusement.

BUT...West Virginia is an exception to auto-hold = Class II. State law REQUIRES auto-hold, but they can offer Class III games too. Like I said previously, I think both are allowed. So it's really a mess.

Like I said previously, if you see a "good" paytable, I'd be skeptical because state law forbids most 95%+ games. The one exception to the rule I have been told of is when the autohold gives you bad advice. Supposedly one of the racinos has a 9/5 JoB game that is very ancient, but the autohold holds cards that maximize your chances of winning anything instead of maximizing your expected value. Always following the autohold will make the game lower than 95%, and legal, but optimal strategy for 9/5 JoB is 98.45%. It really dumbfounds me.   


The paytables still indicate how much you get for a given winning hand. Only the method of selection changes.

Right, the standard probabilities of a random deck where each card is equally likely just no longer apply on Class II machines. Generally the game is slightly weighted in poorer final hands to lower the payback to 92% or so because I have always seen the paytable be either 9/6 JoB or 9/6 DDB. So I would be highly skeptical if I found those in WV.

Either way, if you're in a WV bar, you're certainly playing a game <95% return, whichever method it is, so I'd personally risk very little on the games.

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=FloridaPhil] We used to have VLT video poker machines at the Florida Hard Rocks before they were allowed to have Vegas Slots.  All the Class II video poker machines that I have seen hold the cards for you on the first deal.  If the machines doesn't, it's probably a Class III machine.  Others may have more information, but that's how I tell the difference.

Yeah, generally Class II machines autohold, so you avoid making wacky things happen. For example, on some Class II machines, if you hold garbage, occasionally you see a "magic genie" appear to change your hand to what you are "supposed" to win.

I really wished I would have taken a pic of one of those when I had the chance, but this was before I was into taking pics. I never could find an image on google of the "genie". I often held garbage to make her appear for my amusement.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, at Tampa Hard Rock, when I finally figured out what was going on, I once threw away a dealt straight flush, only to draw another straight flush in a different suit. It was funny.

[FloridaPhil]

We ran into VLTs in Washington State.  The native casinos all had Class II machines when we went there a few years ago.  We didn't play them.