Need advice

[rascal]

VP on the whole is a losing proposition, ALR849. Some folks have even filed bankruptcy.

[bigboy]

[QUOTE=alr849]I must be entering it wrong because I keep coming up with " ZERO". He will make ZERO dollars ( over the long haul ) playing a 100 % machine , one day a week, 52 weeks, seven hours a day, 500 hands per hour.
Yes, you are punching it in wrong. 
That would be 182,000 hands. 
There is a wide distribution of where he could end up. On a 100% machine with no slot club benefits or comps the most likely place is right where you started (breaking even) and moving away from this center in a bell curve are the other possibilities, ranging from filthy rich (low percentage) to filthy poor (low percentage). The highest percentage of people will end up near center and a good many will be above or below a small amount.  The further from center you go, the fewer people there will be.
By this point you would have fed a lot of coin into the machine so if you were playing a slot club card or receiving other comps they would likely get pretty healthy with 182,000 hands played. It's up to your friend to determine the value of those to him.
You will find a similar bell curve resulting from any strategy. I do not think there is a strategy out there that can shift the curve in the favor of a majority of players.
But as was asked by someone else... what is your point exactly?  That playing a 100% machine the average person isn't going to be wealthy?  Well, I think the math demonstrates that clearly.  Some will win heavily but only a small percentage. The largest group of players would break even.
So if there is another point, it would be good to hear it.  I know you have spoken of the Fa La La La La.... La la la la strategy in the past so my hunch is that you are suggesting that might be a better option.  Well, then let's have an example of a play that differs from the mathematical strategy and I can simulate it 182,000 times and we will see which method has the better return.
[/QUOTE]
 
Don't hang around all night waiting for the magic elixcir, WM. It's not happening.

[oej719]

It's a good pension !
 
But he would like to buy his wife a lot of nice gifts from his "advantage play".
 
I mean after all, that's about 400 hours on a 100 % machine !
 
How many weeks before he can buy her the Rolex she wants ?

I know the secret but before I give it out I realy need to see a photo of his wife.
Please post a photo of her

[oej719]

Simplesimon says get on the Larry King or Oprah show

and become famous with nfl picks and special plays and telling the world about hot and cold cycles.
Welcome to walmart. Would you like fries with that?
Happy labor all.
Boo Patriots. Thank God we are about done with GWB.
God bless America and Bob Dancer.

[bigboy]

[QUOTE=alr849] It's a good pension ! But he would like to buy his wife a lot of nice gifts from his "advantage play". I mean after all, that's about 400 hours on a 100 % machine !
How many weeks before he can buy her the Rolex she wants ?
I know the secret but before I give it out I realy need to see a photo of his wife.
Please post a photo of her [/QUOTE]
Found it!

[oej719]

I don't think a Rolex is necessary for the Cracker Barrel. Go with a Timex waterproof.

[rascal]

Most of the VP players I know (and I know a bunch of them!) don't make any money. They play for the enjoyment and challenge and they constantly try to minimize their losses.
 
Of those who do play for money, there are two basic groups, in my opinion:
 
a. Those who play max percentage machines (as close to 100% as possible), play carefully, and accumulate points by running as many credits through as possible. This was a very common first or second occupation in Vegas and other Nevada locations as recently as 5 years ago, but it is becoming less and less common as more and more casinos lower the returns of their VP machines.
 
b. those who play highly volitile games and through good fortune (or  otherwise) have hit one or more jackpots that exceed the total of their losses. This is my case, having lost on many, many sessions but still being in the black because of just a few truly outstanding sessions on highly volitile games, not through skill but through just plain dumb luck and proper bankroll.
 
Now actually, there is a third group, but it consists of such limited membership that it is hardly a sample worth considering. This group consists of those who make their money by advising other players of VP strategy. Members of this group span the spectrum in their operational modes. Some write books, some write newspaper or magazine columns, and some actually meet with potential VP players and teach them how to play their supposedly successful strategies. One of the most innovative members of this group is Bob Dancer, who makes money by advising VP players how to max out at the casinos and then turns around and makes additional money by advising casinos how to prevent players from maxing out at the casinos.
 
Now, you need to understand that while the actual documented membership in one of these groups is very small relative to the entire pool of VP players, there are many VP players out there who are totally unaware that they are not members of one of these groups. That's because many VP players delude themselves into believing they are winning when, in fact, they are not. Failure to properly (and honestly) account for win-loss totals and failure to properly appraise the actual cash value of comps received pushes many who lose into believing they are winning.
 
One of the perhaps unintended benefits of the Beta games now offered on this site is that a player who is truly being honest with himself/herself can play an uninterrupted session for free over a long period of time and actually see that they are not winners, after all. If one will truly use this tool and refuse to rationalize away the hard, cold results then it might provide a splash of reality to some of those who need it.
 
 

[pah0106]

.......Bravo Rascal.......Well put.

[shadowman]

Good post, rascal.
 
Let me expand on your (a.) group a little bit. That is where I see myself. Although positive machines are becoming more difficult to find, it is still possible to make a little money and comps. Interestingly, it is much easier at the quarter level than at higher demons. Casinos are willing to allow a few small winners because it does not cost them much money. In addition, I think they still make money on these positive machines because most of the top players are looking at dollar and higher denoms. There are a lot of players who know enough to look for good paytables but still play with enough errors to make their own play negative. The casinos still compete for this business, especially off-strip local casinos.
 
I would NOT consider it possible to make a living with these machines. However, for someone who enjoys VP, has a reasonable bankroll, likes lots of free meals, etc. and would rather not work part time ... this method does allow supplementing a retirement income.
 

[royal flush]

very wel put