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OK, for the on-going discussion of manipulation by casinos, I encourage you to read this linked article. I haven't researched the credentials of the author or the researcher.
According to the researcher, new casino software can respond to your "losing streak" by changing the machine volatility without changing the overall pay return (keeping the action legal) but allowing you to win to keep you playing. Thought it was an interesting article.
"Alternatively, Schüll discovered, some video machines actually make internal adjustments if they notice that a player is on a losing streak and is reaching their "pain point." This has to be done carefully — it's illegal for casinos to change the odds in a game once a player has started playing. But, she says, casinos can reduce the volatility of a game in a way that still preserves the overall payback percentage. That's technically still legal."
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/7/5976927/slo ... -by-design
Casinos Can Change Slot Volatility
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Lucky Larry
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pokerforme
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Not surprised in the least. Very interesting read, thanks for posting it LL.
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Vman96
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The way I read most laws, she is in error and this is illegal in most (maybe all?) states. 3rd forum I post to that brought this article up. Lol
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BillyJoe
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My understanding of the server-based machines is that a player has to stop playing a current game in order for changes to be made to payback % (slots) or pay tables (VP). I would think that would apply to any kind of volatility setting, since this would affect the payback. Any changes made in the middle of a playing session would violate the current regulations.
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Lucky Larry
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The way I read most laws, she is in error and this is illegal in most (maybe all?) states. 3rd forum I post to that brought this article up. Lol
Vman/billyjoe,
That's part of the reason I posted the link. I would have assumed any change in "pay return" would have violated state law.
Vman/billyjoe,
That's part of the reason I posted the link. I would have assumed any change in "pay return" would have violated state law.
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pitbeagle
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Thank You for the info.
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overtaxed
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Having read the full interview, I think I understand what she is trying to say. But poorly explained, if indeed she truly understands the concept.
The casino does not change the volatility...the player can. There are many penny video slots that have been out for about 4-5 years, that actually advertise on the "glass" (video screen) "choose your own volatility."
The way this works in most cases is that the player can choose 30 free spins in the bonus round with a 2X multiplier, or maybe 10 free spins at an 8X multiplier.
Or many ways in between. The player chooses the risk/reward factor. This in no way affects the overall theoretical hold percentage over the long haul. Just the player experience.
Here is just an example
http://www.igt.com/us-en/games/game-pag ... &showtab=1
The casino does not change the volatility...the player can. There are many penny video slots that have been out for about 4-5 years, that actually advertise on the "glass" (video screen) "choose your own volatility."
The way this works in most cases is that the player can choose 30 free spins in the bonus round with a 2X multiplier, or maybe 10 free spins at an 8X multiplier.
Or many ways in between. The player chooses the risk/reward factor. This in no way affects the overall theoretical hold percentage over the long haul. Just the player experience.
Here is just an example
http://www.igt.com/us-en/games/game-pag ... &showtab=1
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BillyJoe
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3198
- Joined: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:00 pm
Having read the full interview, I think I understand what she is trying to say. But poorly explained, if indeed she truly understands the concept.
The casino does not change the volatility...the player can. There are many penny video slots that have been out for about 4-5 years, that actually advertise on the "glass" (video screen) "choose your own volatility."
The way this works in most cases is that the player can choose 30 free spins in the bonus round with a 2X multiplier, or maybe 10 free spins at an 8X multiplier.
Or many ways in between. The player chooses the risk/reward factor. This in no way affects the overall theoretical hold percentage over the long haul. Just the player experience.
Here is just an example
http://www.igt.com/us-en/games/game-pag ... &showtab=1
Well, if that is the case, as you said, it is the PLAYER that is making the change; not the CASINO, as she was making it sound.
The casino does not change the volatility...the player can. There are many penny video slots that have been out for about 4-5 years, that actually advertise on the "glass" (video screen) "choose your own volatility."
The way this works in most cases is that the player can choose 30 free spins in the bonus round with a 2X multiplier, or maybe 10 free spins at an 8X multiplier.
Or many ways in between. The player chooses the risk/reward factor. This in no way affects the overall theoretical hold percentage over the long haul. Just the player experience.
Here is just an example
http://www.igt.com/us-en/games/game-pag ... &showtab=1
Well, if that is the case, as you said, it is the PLAYER that is making the change; not the CASINO, as she was making it sound.
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Vman96
- Video Poker Master
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Here are the four relevant paragraphs from the interview.
[Quote="Natasha Dow Schull"]We were talking about lax regulations and this is one perfect example of this. It is technically illegal for casinos to change the odds of game once you sit down and start playing.
But casinos can watch you play and, if they notice that you're nearing your pain point and about to leave, they can dispatch a "luck ambassador" to come give you a lunch bonus. And they can get around the rules about changing odds by classifying that as "marketing."
Although, casinos have actually found that those luck ambassadors backfired — a lot of players didn't want to be interrupted. So now they're trying to find better ways to do this. And recently there are some experiments with changing the machine mid-game. You can go in and change the volatility of the game while preserving the overall payback percentage. So you're taking a volatile machine and turning it into a smooth drip feed for a period — to get a player who's on a bad streak back on track.
And technically that circumvents the rules on changing the odds. And they're doing that by classifying some of these mathematical operations as "marketing" — even though they're actually changing the algorithm of the game.[/quote]
The last two paragraphs violate current Nevada law to the best of my knowledge. You cannot change anything mid-game legally. You must have a 4 minute idle period for ANY game change.
[Quote="Natasha Dow Schull"]We were talking about lax regulations and this is one perfect example of this. It is technically illegal for casinos to change the odds of game once you sit down and start playing.
But casinos can watch you play and, if they notice that you're nearing your pain point and about to leave, they can dispatch a "luck ambassador" to come give you a lunch bonus. And they can get around the rules about changing odds by classifying that as "marketing."
Although, casinos have actually found that those luck ambassadors backfired — a lot of players didn't want to be interrupted. So now they're trying to find better ways to do this. And recently there are some experiments with changing the machine mid-game. You can go in and change the volatility of the game while preserving the overall payback percentage. So you're taking a volatile machine and turning it into a smooth drip feed for a period — to get a player who's on a bad streak back on track.
And technically that circumvents the rules on changing the odds. And they're doing that by classifying some of these mathematical operations as "marketing" — even though they're actually changing the algorithm of the game.[/quote]
The last two paragraphs violate current Nevada law to the best of my knowledge. You cannot change anything mid-game legally. You must have a 4 minute idle period for ANY game change.
