CET debt

[notes1]

Tedlark, even with the modest budget cuts, the IRS budget is more than twice the budget of the FDA. so, the agency that is in charge of keeping our food and drugs safe gets less than half the money than the agency, who is in charge of getting every legal dollar it can from us. i am not here to debate the value of one agency over another, my point was obvious, the states that regulate the gaming industry are more concerned about getting their cut, than protecting the player.  i never stated that playing less than max coins provided a better opportunity to win (as some have). i simply pointed out that some players have resorted to playing less than max, because the cost of gaming has risen, and they still want to play. i am not qualified to discuss the complexities of all tax situations facing the casinos. but, i do know that their is a difference in income tax (based on profit/loss) and gaming taxes. i assure you, out of every dollar wagered, the state is getting a cut. revenue to the state is what they are most interested in. politicians need money to buy votes. of course, pay table reductions have affected outcomes. from my very first post, i have stated that in my experience, the cost of gambling has increased over the past few years. it is my opinion that something other than pay tables has caused this to happen. each of us must decide for ourselves. i will put the probability that some adjustment in VP machines has not occured, as the same likelihood that you can 'keep your plan, keep your doctor and save $2500/year'.   as far as why do i continue to play, it is the same as everyone else, we love the game. i have every right to attempt to correct a wrong.  i have made my feelings known to multiple casinos, always get the same pat answer. but, if enough players feel as i do, maybe we can get something done about. just look at the demise of AC, some of this happened because regulars like myself gave up going there. it may not have been the sole reason AC business has gone south, but it did not help them, that folks like me, left.     

[FloridaPhil]

I think you guys have pretty much got it correct on the subject of single coin play.   Playing single coin does a lot of things for me, most of them good. It definitely extends my play and allows me to enjoy the fun of casino gaming on a budget.  The vast majority of video poker machines in this country have negative odds. Playing negative games is a sliding scale of loss; the more money you put in... the more you lose.  Over time I will lose less money playing single coin than a max coin player of the same denomination.  This gives me a little room to play around with an occasional attempt at a lucky hit.  An example of this is turning $20 into $1,000 with a single coin quad deuce on a $5 machine. Sure it takes luck to do this, but I like the odds better than pumping 5 times the money into the machine watching a 96% game eat up my savings.  I'm not sure the machines are rigged, but I do think the programming has changed over the last 5 years.  It seems like jackpot hands are dealt more and the so called "dud" hands are more numerous.  Of course we all tend to believe our own experience is gospel, so who knows?   Anyway, I'm not crying for the casinos or their Billionaire investors.  The big problem is too many casinos competing for a shrinking customer base.  Maybe they will turn some of them into low income housing and get the homeless off the streets.

[OTABILL]

One way casinos can legally lower payouts without changing paytables or messing around with the RNG is by lowering the meter rate on VP progressives. This is something we have noticed since we have primarily played progressive DDB machines. Another way to lower progressive payouts has been to add non-progressive VP games/denominations and/or slot/keno as choices on progressive VP banks.

[Minn. Fatz]

CET has a lot of debt or shareholders who are expecting to receive something for their investment.

CET doesn't have shareholders. From the link:

[quote]Caesars, the nation’s largest casino operator, has a gaming industry-high $22.8 billion in debt. The debt has been on the company’s books since 2008, when it was taken private in a $30 billion leveraged buyout by TPG Capital and Apollo Global Management.

The company has been in talks since September with bank lenders and bond holders in attempts to restructure the debt.

Two first-lien creditors — hedge funds Perry Corp. and Silver Point Capital — pulled out of the debt-restructuring talks last month and Caesars said last week another creditor had withdrawn from discussions. The firms that ended the talks no longer have restrictions preventing them from trading Caesars debt.[/quote]

I can understand Donald Trump's casinos going toes-up, that guy could mess up a one-car funeral. But the Caesar's deal seems to be the same old same old Wall St. BS, complete with leverage and CDOs and whatever else the too-big-to-jail crowd can come up with to feather their nests at the expense of us poor suckers in the 99 percent.

I'm more than dubious about this development. As I've said, the big difference between Wall St. and Las Vegas is that Las Vegas is regulated...

[notes1]

Caesars Entertainment Corp is ia publicly traded company, ticker CZR. much of their buyout was financed with debt.  the interest payment is $2b/annual. as far as vegas being more regulated than wall street, there are plenty of folks in jail  who broke the laws regarding investment securities. when was the last time anyone heard of any casino management person going to jail for breaking any gambling regulations? must be everyone in the casino business is as pure as the driven snow.  as far as donald trump goes, i do not care much for him, but he got out of his primary ownership in the casino business years ago. i believe he now owns less than 10% of trump casinos. sounds like he was pretty smart to get out when he did. 

[djc32]

One way casinos can legally lower payouts without changing paytables or messing around with the RNG is by lowering the meter rate on VP progressives. This is something we have noticed since we have primarily played progressive DDB machines.

I was just curious ,what kind of meter rates you are seeing now, compared to in the past?

[Vman96]

[QUOTE=OTABILL] One way casinos can legally lower payouts without changing paytables or messing around with the RNG is by lowering the meter rate on VP progressives. This is something we have noticed since we have primarily played progressive DDB machines.

I was just curious ,what kind of meter rates you are seeing now, compared to in the past?


[/QUOTE]

Lately it's difficult to find a meter above 0.25% at CET properties. A former CET property, Hollywood STL, still has a 97.36% Bonus Deuces machine with a 1.625% meter divided among the Royal (0.125%), Deuces w/Ace (0.25%), and 4 Deuces (1.25%). I assume this was a Harrah's holdover.

[Tedlark]

  notes I may be wrong but I seem to remember that Donald Trump was forced out of his majority ownership in the Atlantic City casinos as a result (or offshoot) of a bankruptcy. He may have the less than 10% ownership as a tradeoff for the rights to use his name. Maybe someone with more knowledge of Atlantic City, or Mr. Trump, can confirm this?

[djc32]

[/QUOTE]



Lately it's difficult to find a meter above 0.25% at CET properties. A former CET property, Hollywood STL, still has a 97.36% Bonus Deuces machine with a 1.625% meter divided among the Royal (0.125%), Deuces w/Ace (0.25%), and 4 Deuces (1.25%). I assume this was a Harrah's holdover.

Wow,the BDW 1.625% meter is a nice find, especially on the 4 deuces! The 0.25% at CET properties is disappointing.
It's funny ,the topic of this discussion is "CET debt", and there the ones with worst meter rise.

[Minn. Fatz]

Caesars Entertainment Corp is ia publicly traded company, ticker CZR. much of their buyout was financed with debt.  the interest payment is $2b/annual. as far as vegas being more regulated than wall street, there are plenty of folks in jail  who broke the laws regarding investment securities. when was the last time anyone heard of any casino management person going to jail for breaking any gambling regulations? must be everyone in the casino business is as pure as the driven snow.

I stand corrected. Since mid-2012, you can own bits of Caesars, assuming you want to play the shell game with the insiders who own 45 percent of CZR and buy and sell bits of it back and forth between the 2-3 other subsidiaries they control. Me, I'll stick to video poker.

Look, I like casinos and I like people who like casinos and I wish all casino owners the best. But it takes a certain kind of genius, and not the good kind, to lose money owning one.

Here are some cases of gaming figures who are doing durance vile for shady doings, not to mention the Black Friday online poker stuff.

How many people have gone to jail, or even been arrested, for colluding to fix the LIBOR and other rates for years, costing individuals and governments billions (none); or front-running FOREX orders and rigging benchmarks for a decade (one); or foisting interest rate swaps on their customers (none); or packaging liar loans into securities, getting ratings firms to grade them AAA, selling them off and betting aginst their own customers?

At least in a casino you can see, or figure out, the hold.