State whether or not you have won....

[ko king]

Isn't that something KO. I am between 95 and 96% for the same time period. It doesn't take much math to see what I could have bought or spent on other things. 1 million hands a year even at a dollar a hand. I cringe when the math is done. We have had a good time though, but for me the casino wore out it's welcome. So for 2015, they are going to get the pennies out of my tin cup at best. Too bad I can't play the violin. Might even be a few nickels and dimes in that cup.

Quite a chunk of change, could have bought some really nice things with the cash I gave away. I had my records and was well aware I had dropped some serious cash but I wanted my won/loss statement to get a more accurate summary of what took place. I took the two years statements and compared it with my records and it came up to 95.6% payback. I could easily tell why I lost so bad and what was missing because I played $2 denomination DDB at max play all the time. From Aces/w kicker all the way down to quad 2,3 and 4's I was short in an almost uniform manner for all the hands. I actually quit playing for 6 months and worked on my golf game, got pretty darn good at it then the cold weather and boredom sat in. Nothing seems to have changed other than I'm a lot quicker to walk away now, I'm kind of on the fence again considering quitting.

[ko king]

[QUOTE=ko king]I lost. Fact is I don't know anyone who can say they honestly won. ....................ever hit a hand pay, not one. Now I still hold on to the hope that nothing has really changed and it's possible it hasn't but it's still hard to not think that maybe it has.Excellent post Ko King, a lot of good points......I liked your discussion of how a 98.88% game fits into your plans as a regular VP player.......we all accept the house edge on the machines we play, and we try to select the best games in terms of THEORETICAL payback %  with a corresponding emphasis on FUN and entertainment in that we have to be able to ENJOY the game we play in order to justify spending our money and potentially LOSING it....even the so called "putrid paytables" that only pay 95-97%, seem to EAT our bankrolls at a much faster rate than 5% at a time when you really stop to look at the way things transpire and progress...at least that has been my experience the last 5 years in AC.......I rarely play a game worse than the 99%  8/5 BP games that are ubiquitous in AC, but if I do it is usually a game like DDB which even the worst paytables still has the LARGE premium hits that can repair a bankroll quickly, but it never pans out that way, not like it used to in LAs Vegas during the heyday of gambling between 1997 thru 2005  or thereabouts........[/QUOTE]

I try my best to avoid the really bad paytables because I feel even dumber playing them. The only real value of finding the best paytables now days seems to be that it takes a little longer to lose the same amount of money. I really don't know how to change the fact that I used to walk out the casino with 3-4-5 W2-G's now I'm lucky to get one, an extremely rare treat is hitting 2 hand pays. It's tough play around these parts and has been that way for a while now. Getting out of here and will be in Vegas this thrursday hopefully I can at least play and enjoy myself there.

[DaBurglar]

There is so much more information that you would need to gather in order for you to put together anything that would even closely resemble an accurate study of what you seek.

When you are looking for trends do you take into account where people have played? For example if I traveled to Tunica and played how would these stats fit into your model?

You mentioned playing different denominations but what about the size of the bet?

This "study" cannot be accurate even with a 5 year span.How many players here actually keep such detailed records? You yourself said you abandoned the practice a year or so ago. First off, if you have such disdain for what I am trying to do, why then were you one of the first people to "Chime in"???Second, I clearly have stated that this is simply people expressing a straightforward assessment of their results over the last 5 years compared to the previous years......this is NOT a STUDY, and furthermore in my first post I clearly state that in and of itself this will not PROVE anything other than whether or not MORE people think/believe/perceive they are winning or losing as of late, which is where all out previous discussions stall when people (such as YOU ted) insist that when I claim that  "MOST" people today feel it is harder to win or that more people are losing more money more of the time, You always jump up and down and say "NOT TRUE" and ask me to prove it....so I am proving it....And as the count stands right now, clearly more people think or believe or perceive exactly what I said was the case, that they are losing......But keep going Ted, tell all the people who have posted here so far and said they are losing and that it is harder to win that all they need to do is "Think positive"....or better yet, tell them they are all "IMAGINING that they are losing"....and if that does not work, call them liars.

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar its true, I was one of the first to "chime in." Your first post was a simple one to answer and I answered in a straight forward manner because that's what you were seeking. Then your second post added some conditions and you were trying to go more in depth.   For whatever reason you are hellbent on trying to establish that there is something wrong in the state of video poker (excuse me Denmark) and you will not cease until your camp is full of people who have rallied to your flag and state with an affirmative pledge that: "DaBurglar is right, video poker is wacked."    As I have stated many, MANY times: if a player is unhappy with video poker or if a player is of the opinion that video poker is skewed or crooked, or fixed, or whatever, DON'T PLAY IT. Switch to cribbage or competitive UNO for all I care but stop whining about video poker and something being wrong with it while you continue to play! What is so difficult to understand with this train of thought? Don't say: "well I enjoy it too much" because that doesn't wash.    I do not call people here liars, you do that enough for all here.

[DaBurglar]

  DaBurglar its true, I was one of the first to "chime in." Your first post was a simple one to answer and I answered in a straight forward manner because that's what you were seeking. Then your second post added some conditions and you were trying to go more in depth.   For whatever reason you are hellbent on trying to establish that there is something wrong in the state of video poker (excuse me Denmark) and you will not cease until your camp is full of people who have rallied to your flag and state with an affirmative pledge that: "DaBurglar is right, video poker is wacked."    As I have stated many, MANY times: if a player is unhappy with video poker or if a player is of the opinion that video poker is skewed or crooked, or fixed, or whatever, DON'T PLAY IT. Switch to cribbage or competitive UNO for all I care but stop whining about video poker and something being wrong with it while you continue to play! What is so difficult to understand with this train of thought? Don't say: "well I enjoy it too much" because that doesn't wash.    I do not call people here liars, you do that enough for all here.

You are just PO'd because I am being proven right ......I said Most people are down and finding it harder to win lately, and lo and behold it is the case.   You insist on crafting this totally bogus characterizations of what "I (me daburglar) am trying to say".....There is no flag, no camp, and no one is saying video poker is whacked.   You do that all the time Ted, make up absurd simplifications of posts and points I make..... WHAT A LOT of people are saying is it is very hard to win at Video Poker, harder than ever, and it is not simply to be explained away by lousy paytables or negative thoughts....why you are so upset by this is beyond me, except to say it pops the 80% balloon you play with inside your head.......that whaaaa whaaaa whaaa you hear is in your own head.Just let other people beside you and me post for once and get a word in edge wise huh?    You friggin box people out with all you noise and BS.....I'm totally serious

[Tedlark]

  DaBurglar I am not "PO'd" because (in your own mind) you are being proven right. You are nowhere near being proven right. How many millions of people play video poker? How many have you heard from? How can you claim to be proven right off this?   Video poker is a long term deal. Just because I am enjoying some success at it right now does not mean that 2 years from now it will balance out or even go into the negative. Nor am I upset. Again, you refuse to accept the math of video poker. I am a logical person and alot of my work includes analysis and statistics; this may be why I am able to understand things better that people like shadowman and others try to tell you about the math.    If people are disappointed (this includes you, me, and everyone here) with video poker they have 3 avenues to go down: 1- they can continue to play even though they are not happy; 2- they can adapt to make the game more to their favor (Bob Dancer is a perfect example of this); or, 3 - THEY CAN QUIT PLAYING. It doesn't get much more basic than that.    It is no secret that I don't like you and I probably never will. One of the reasons why I don't like you is because of your inability to defend your position without making things personal. Your name calling, and even now how you say that I am "boxiing people out" but yet you don't say the same thing about yourself. You belittle people and the sad part is that you don't even care. I could go on about what I really think of you but you would then attack me the same way you did with CK. But then again; I'm used to being attacked by you.      

[notes1]

after a couple years of experiencing worse results than before, i started to wonder if it were a result of my poor play. there are a limited number of VP players to discuss this with and one never knows if someone is telling the truth.  that is why i came to this forum and why this topic is of great interest to me. i had never been to any other forum and never posted anything online.  maybe it is misery loves company, but at least now i know i am not alone. that it is not my bad play, that there are others reasons.   i am not ready to give up the game. like others, i have adjusted my play to make the current VP reality fit my budget.  everytime this topic comes up, there are always folks who state, if you think the game is not fair, just do not play. that is a righteous arguement to make. but, i would counter, if you find this discusion as unfair, just do not particpate. 

[Tedlark]

notes just as players have the choice to play or not to play, others here such as myself have the right to participate or not to participate.

I personally do not find this discussion unfair but when people do not understand or refuse to accept the long term of video poker it makes it difficult to sway them otherwise.

Alot of my work consists of analysis and statistics so I find it disturbing when a person here claims that he has proof to verify his position when, in my mind, he has no where near the number required to even consider it accurate.

And for that same person to tell me to not respond to posts is just an ignorant thing to say. I did not realize that I was not allowed to respond to a post at all or at a minimum, wait a certain amount of time before I was allowed to post.

As you mentioned; you adjusted your play and that was one of the options that I spelled out. When I read about some of the losses that others here speak of having year in and year out I really have to cringe because if I had those losses I would seriously rethink my game. Good luck to you.

To add: When I do post stories with pictures of my winning sessions I am called a liar; that I think everyone here is stupid; that I doctoring pictures and reusing old pictures; that I am using other people's pictures, and, the list goes on. He wants to post that crap about me and another reason why I don't like the guy is because he can dish it out but he can't take it.

[ko king]

   notes just as players have the choice to play or not to play, others here such as myself have the right to participate or not to participate.

I personally do not find this discussion unfair but when people do not understand or refuse to accept the long term of video poker it makes it difficult to sway them otherwise.

Alot of my work consists of analysis and statistics so I find it disturbing when a person here claims that he has proof to verify his position when, in my mind, he has no where near the number required to even consider it accurate.

And for that same person to tell me to not respond to posts is just an ignorant thing to say. I did not realize that I was not allowed to respond to a post at all or at a minimum, wait a certain amount of time before I was allowed to post.

As you mentioned; you adjusted your play and that was one of the options that I spelled out. When I read about some of the losses that others here speak of having year in and year out I really have to cringe because if I had those losses I would seriously rethink my game. Good luck to you.

To add: When I do post stories with pictures of my winning sessions I am called a liar; that I think everyone here is stupid; that I doctoring pictures and reusing old pictures; that I am using other people's pictures, and, the list goes on. He wants to post that crap about me and another reason why I don't like the guy is because he can dish it out but he can't take it.


{ When I read about some of the losses that others here speak of having year in and year out I really have to cringe because if I had those losses I would seriously rethink my game.}


I've got to ask, just can't help myself and please don't be offended. Why would you feel the need to rethink your game just because of a few bad years, wouldn't the math and statistics involved in the game of video poker suggest that sooner or later the tide will have to turn? You take a player like myself, I get it, I'm going to lose playing 98.98% pay tables, I accept that. Now I've played for over 20 years now, I know and understand the game. If during the last few years I've seen my payback percentage slip down to around 95.6% wouldn't the math and statistics suggest that as long as I keep playing and making the correct plays things should turn around?

[notes1]

ted, i have never called you a liar, i never accused you of posting misleading results or pictures. if you go back to previous posts, i believe you find that i clearly stated that until someone is proven to falsify anything, i will take their word. i would urge you not to mix together/confuse my comments with anyone else. i am not here to take sides. i speak for myself. i have my own battles with your nemisis, he overly generalizes and sometimes acts like a spokesperson for the entire forum.    as i stated, i have a real interest in this subject. the very first post i ever made dealt with casino intergrity and asking whether others had experienced a higher cost of playing VP over the last few years. i have been consistent, i am not some newcomer to this subject. i want to hear what everyone has to say, including those like yourself. i would agree, that this forum is too small a sample to declare any findings as 'fact'. but, for some of us, it is an indication, that we are not alone in our recent results.   too many times, i have heard from those who disagree with higher cost of gambling or the machines being different, and simply writing us off and telling us, 'just do not play'. i was simply turning that response against them.   i will defend your right to comment, but i will also defend my right to say something has changed.