State whether or not you have won....

[notes1]

roveer, do not know you, but the way you wrote your post, i found it very believeable. it felt like it came from well thought out experience and an honest appraisal of all that you have seen.    i am now accepting the conclusion that many have made, that the machines are NOT rigged. my previous assertions were wrong. i came to this belief for one simple reason, no group could keep a secret like this for a long period of time.   but, i ask you, do you believe the machines have changed in some way? is it possible something else is going on? is it possible, that with regulator approval, the machines/shuffling is different?  i would really be interested in your thoughts.

[Tedlark]

  notes in order for something other than the paytables to be changed in a machine it would require rewriting the gaming regulations of whatever jurisdiction the machine is located in.    When a casino orders a particular video poker machine from a manufacturer the manufacturer then needs to know where the game will be located because they then set the game up per the gaming regulations that apply in that particular jurisdiction.    Changing the state gaming regulations would require quite a bit of effort.

[ko king]

  notes in order for something other than the paytables to be changed in a machine it would require rewriting the gaming regulations of whatever jurisdiction the machine is located in.    When a casino orders a particular video poker machine from a manufacturer the manufacturer then needs to know where the game will be located because they then set the game up per the gaming regulations that apply in that particular jurisdiction.    Changing the state gaming regulations would require quite a bit of effort.

Don't know if you caught the post BillyJoe made a while back about the possibility of the newer machines having a more true RNG than the older machines, you put any stock in that idea?

[notes1]

ted, i do not pretend to know the mechanics of a gaming machine, nor the regulatory process. what i do believe is that the gaming public is not organized like the casino owners are, to have any impact on any rule changes/alterations. the industry is going to lobby for any/all changes which could benefit them. it is all legal and i absolutlely believe it is in the best interest of the regulators to keep the casinos in business. without the casinos, no need for the regulators. job protection.while i have admitted that it is doubtful that wide spread tampering could occur without someone spilling the beans, i do believe something has changed, beyond paytable reductions.     

[Tedlark]

  notes in states where casino gambling does not play a big part in their budget (Nevada is probably the only one) there would probably not be much resistance via the legislature against a measure that a casino lobby group may push for.   But in states where casino gambling is still considered a blight on society and a tax on poor people, there are groups who routinely fight any change of state gaming regulations by the casino lobbying groups. These people do a fantastic job of getting Mr. & Mrs. John Q. Public informed about any possible altering of gaming regulations that may be in place.    Did you know that Illinois now allows restaurants that hold liquor licenses and that meet other qualifiers to have up to 5 gaming machines in their establishment? These games are highly regulated and controlled. So in this context Illinois has more brick and mortar casinos that any other state in the United States.

[Tedlark]

welcome back roveer, first of all...Rascal, I respect what you said and it makes sense......we all know (including me) that casino games are built in with a house edge....what I am saying, and what a lot of other people are saying, it SEEMS like that "edge" has taken on a more severe manifestation these last 5 years wen it comes to VP play results...... Now, Someone point out where in this thread I specifically said VP is rigged?For the FOURTH time, I asked for people's input on what their results have been for the last 4-5 years......reason for this is simple:  In previous threads I make the claim (now proven correct by this thread) that a MAJORITY of the people playing serious VP feel/think/perceive the game(s) are not performing or yielding the way they used to.....it was disputed by someone who shall be nameless that my claim is wrong.   THAT IS ALL!I want to simply achieve a consensus (and put to rest any dispute) that MORE people feel the game(s) of VP today are harder to win and as a result, they have been even MORE unprofitable than usual the last 4-5 years.......this is now shown to be the case at least as far as the people who have posted in this thread thus far.


  WRONG...

[notes1]

sorry ted, have to disagree with most everything you said. -where there is money, there is corruption.-states are in need of revenues, casinos are a stealth way to increase those revenues.-the public is more than willing to overlook any 'blight on society' for what is in their interest, and right now, they want jobs and tax relief.-you are giving the public too much credit for being informed. do you think the citizens of illinois were well informed when all the public employee pension/healthcare contracts were approved? the obligation defecits that your state and others face, is exactly why they are allowing gaming machines in restaurants.  governments need money- casinos can help provide that money-government regulators are not going to kill the goose that gives them that money.

[olds442jetaway]

Unfortunately, governments need money, then waste it on overpriced everything, steal some, then demand we give it more.

[rascal]

Government is corrupt, no question. I was born and raised in South Mississippi, right across the line from Louisiana, and spent most of my career in California, now living across the border from Nevada most of the year. Thus, I have had experience with four of the most corrupt states in the nation.

That said, to rig video poker machines in a particular state requires not only corruption at the top, but also throughout the entire network of inspectors and law enforcement officials who monitor casino gambling. I can see an occasional payoff here and there to a specific individual, but wholesale corruption for every video poker machine in an entire state? I think not.

Next, those of you who have entertainment stocks in your portfolios are aware that some of the publicly held casino corporations are greatly profitable. (Not all -- and please note that I said "publicly held"). It makes no sense at all for a highly profitable outfit to enhance those profits by stealing from the very customer base that makes it profitable in the first place.

I will be the first to concede that perhaps there is a shady outfit here and there, particularly in Atlantic City, that may have tried some sneaky stuff from time to time, and as I have written many times before, I have little confidence in those particular Indian casinos which are not subject to state regulation.

But the scope of DaBurglar's survey is nationwide and the responses are from a broad-based group of casino regulars. Thus, he is hearing back from a selection of survey subjects that goes far beyond clients of one or two shady casino outfits.

I totally accept that casinos can indeed rig the machines, and the way they do it is by adjusting the pay tables. For the few among us who might have been the victim of a singularly unethical casino, may I extend my sympathy.

[DaBurglar]

Government is corrupt, no question. I was born and raised in South Mississippi, right across the line from Louisiana, and spent most of my career in California, now living across the border from Nevada most of the year. Thus, I have had experience with four of the most corrupt states in the nation.

That said, to rig video poker machines in a particular state requires not only corruption at the top, but also throughout the entire network of inspectors and law enforcement officials who monitor casino gambling. I can see an occasional payoff here and there to a specific individual, but wholesale corruption for every video poker machine in an entire state? I think not.

Next, those of you who have entertainment stocks in your portfolios are aware that some of the publicly held casino corporations are greatly profitable. (Not all -- and please note that I said "publicly held"). It makes no sense at all for a highly profitable outfit to enhance those profits by stealing from the very customer base that makes it profitable in the first place.

I will be the first to concede that perhaps there is a shady outfit here and there, particularly in Atlantic City, that may have tried some sneaky stuff from time to time, and as I have written many times before, I have little confidence in those particular Indian casinos which are not subject to state regulation.

But the scope of DaBurglar's survey is nationwide and the responses are from a broad-based group of casino regulars. Thus, he is hearing back from a selection of survey subjects that goes far beyond clients of one or two shady casino outfits.

I totally accept that casinos can indeed rig the machines, and the way they do it is by adjusting the pay tables. For the few among us who might have been the victim of a singularly unethical casino, may I extend my sympathy.Amen rascal....amen!