DDB high pairs and Aces

[ecxpa]

Newbie here and learning. In DDB trainer on this site and others it recommends holding a dealt high pair and low pair unless the high pair are Aces then you only hold the Aces. I often times only hold the high pair since the pay is the same in hopes of getting quads. Wondering if there is benefit to holding the high pairs and low pair other than hopes of getting a full house. I've had few full houses when I hold both a high pair and low pair but seem to get more 3 of a kinds when I only hold the high pair.   Another question I have is why only hold the Ace when you are dealt an Ace and two other high cards. Any discussion and insight is greatly appreciated.

[EDC1977]

Holding only the pair of A's is obvious because of the return for quad A's, with or without a kicker. Holding the two pair is obvious again because of the higher return for a FH. It may seem to you that you get more trips by holding the single pair. Understand that you disrupt your ER by discarding the second pair. You are on the right track by using a trainer. Practice often and good luck.

[Mr.Dawes]

When learning video poker it is important to understand the concepts of EV or ER. Using trainers that offer the ability to analyze the hand and show each different hold's EV is important.  Software like VP for winners and websites like Wizard of Odds will allow
you to analyze any hand in question, see not only the EV of each hold
but also a breakdown of the different hands you will hit.You reference hitting more 3 of a kinds by holding only one pair and the possibility of hitting quads. What is important to understand is the average value of all possible hands drawn to each different possible hold. This is how EV is determined.When playing only the high pair instead of two pair, the difference in EV for a game that pays 9:1 for a full house is approximately 1.17 credits. This is a very big difference. You will hit the full house approximately once per 12 draws and the total amount won from those full houses over time will be higher than the total amount won from holding just one pair. Welcome to the forum and good luck. VP is a fun game.

[Vman96]

As the posters above mention, the amount of trips and 250 credit quads that come by just holding the pair of face cards doesn't outweigh the payouts of full houses that you more easily make by holding two pair. Like you say, you will get more trips at 15 credits than full houses from two pair, but 3 times as many as the 45 credit full house? You shouldn't be getting trips THAT much.

When I watch others play, this is likely the most common mistake made. I think most people think, I get 5 credits either way, why not go for the quad? And this is actually wrong.

As for holding the sole Ace, the fluke quad Aces are big enough to outweigh the face cards (except QJ) along with adding fluke flush draws. Making quad Aces from just holding one is a lot of fun too!

[OTABILL]

As for holding the sole Ace, the fluke quad Aces are big enough to outweigh the face cards (except QJ) along with adding fluke flush draws. Making quad Aces from just holding one is a lot of fun too!

One other possibility holding the lone ace is hitting a rf or straight flush.

[Minn. Fatz]

Not to steer too far off the topic of DDB but the "wheel" SF is a factor in holding an Ace with two deuces in many versions of DW. There are many interesting relationships between the strategies for different games in VP, which is one of the things I like about the game.

[Vman96]

Not to steer too far off the topic of DDB but the "wheel" SF is a factor in holding an Ace with two deuces in many versions of DW. There are many interesting relationships between the strategies for different games in VP, which is one of the things I like about the game.



?? The wheel straight flush isn't the main reason you hold 22A. The reason why you hold an Ace with two deuces (or 3 deuces) is when you play bonus deuces wild so you can either get 5 Aces or 4 Deuces with Ace easier. The first time I got 5 Aces was by holding 22A. You only hold an Ace with a deuce in regular deuces wild is with a wild royal flush draw.

[misterlister]

I always hold just the high pair in DDB when there is another low pair dealt with it. I don't worry about what the ev or er is since for the amount of time I'm there playing I know anything can happen. I also do not play for trips; that's not why I hold a high pair. Over the course of my play I've hit a lot of 4oaks holding just the high pair. I don't believe my er or ev has taken a hit, but no one would ever know that for sure. It's only a theory anyway isn't it?

[Vman96]

I always hold just the high pair in DDB when there is another low pair dealt with it. I don't worry about what the ev or er is since for the amount of time I'm there playing I know anything can happen. I also do not play for trips; that's not why I hold a high pair. Over the course of my play I've hit a lot of 4oaks holding just the high pair. I don't believe my er or ev has taken a hit, but no one would ever know that for sure. It's only a theory anyway isn't it?

Yeah, I would think that most players go for it because you can't make a quad from holding two pair, and few would ever hold two pair unless it was pointed out to them that it is the better long term play. In my experience, I would say 50% of players don't hold two pair.

If you are playing a 9/5 or 9/6 machine, it takes a good run quads to make up the difference made by increased full houses created by holding 2 pair. If you are playing a 6/5 machine, it's pretty close to a breakeven call.

[onemoretry]

It's only a theory anyway isn't it?
No, it's not a theory. It's a calculation based on probabilities and pay table.