accuracy

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=FAA]Me, I don't mind a quarter a spin loss while watching most of the nearby players go bonkers and vamoose.[/quote]I totally agree.  Max coin play on a seriously negative expectation video poker machine is a much bigger loser than playing single coin Cheap Strategy.  Bob knows this better than anyone and is counting on other player's loses to pay his bills.  No problem here as long as players understand the process.  Some day the casinos may remove the coin button entirely or fix it at max coins.  The Tampa Hard Rock tried this a few years back, but it didn't last.  If this idea ever becomes the norm, I'll find something else to do for fun.You may be asking yourself why I don't play max coin nickels instead of single coin quarters? Two reasons; we don't have nickel video poker in Florida and the single coin quarter odds are often better than max coin nickels.

[alpax]

I guess I will create a motto.


The best thing in general that a recreational player can do is to focus on finding any means to lose less money while playing a negative expectation game.


Mr. Dancer does not fret about seriously negative expectation games unless every casino in town gets demolished transforms into the Venetian.

[misterlister]

Guys, seriously. It takes nearly the same amount of luck to win on a -ev play as it does on a +ev play. So you don't have to "lose money" and Dancer doesn't have to win money the way we all play. Once again, if a guy like that were really beating the casinos, he wouldn't be allowed to play. Plain and simple. Easy peasy. 100% obvious. So please don't say you are sure to lose or win playing in any particular manner.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=misterlister]So please don't say you are sure to lose or win playing in any particular manner.[/quote]Every now and then someone on this forum says something that is totally profound and refreshing. This is one of those times. 

[notes1]

i think 'mister' has made a number of good points. his delivery may be a bit harsh, but who am i to point out one for making harsh statements.  his problem is that if one dares to infer that luck may be more important than math, you have a group who thinks this is heresy. if you dare to question why any casino would freely lose money, on a consistent basis, to the same person year after year, you have the house of dancer against you.   not sure he understands there is a difference between advocating a system to win as opposed to suggesting ways to lose less.  i do agree with both he and dancer that making a random bet at a higher/lower level is just another form betting on more luck. 

[BobDancer]

Playing Cheap is much better for many recreational players because they lose less money overall. He won't say so because it hurts the crop of money he is harvesting.  I see nothing wrong with that.  He's a businessman and I'm a totally recreational player.  There's a big difference in motivation between the two.







Rubbish!If you choose to use FP's cheap strategy, it doesn't affect my income negatively at all. I have no financial stake whatsoever in that strategy.If you play single coin all the time on bad games --- yes you will lose less. More than if you played 0 coins (which is what I recommend playing on these games), but less than if you played max coins. If that were the whole strategy, I'd have no problem with the argument. It is absolutely correct --- assuming the player can stand the "heartbreak" of hitting a one-coin royal flush.But the strategy also involves moving up in stakes when things are going well. That's the nonsensical part. The past 15 minutes of play is a very poor predictor of the next 15 minutes of play. "Betting more when you are ahead" is not a theory for success --- any more than "Quit wen you're ahead." You'll find advocates of both systems. Often the same person advocates both systems at different times --- which magnifies the lunacy. Winning players understand this fallacy (we do exist despite MisterLister's insisting that we can't possibly exist. Just because he doesn't understand a phenomenon doesn't mean he's right. He's not.)  Many recreational players understand it too. Saying you're a recreational player is one thing. Using that title as a license to totally disregard mathematics is not something to brag about.If FP took out the "bet more when you're ahead" part of his cheap strategy --- and just stuck with a "bet one coin at a time --- and play very, very slowly --- and take frequent long breaks" he would save his followers money. That would be a service to others who couldn't figure this out. By including "bet more when you're ahead," he's not doing other players any favors at all.

[alpax]

The way I see this is.

FloridaPhil never fully understood the mindset of players in the professional scene.

BobDancer never fully understood the players in the recreational world.

However, both have found their niche in what they expect out of video poker. It is no stalemate, both are winners with their virtues on the game. No point in critiquing each other's realm.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=alpax]FloridaPhil never fully understood the mindset of players in the professional scene.  BobDancer never fully understood the players in the recreational world.[/quote]Both world's are galaxies apart.  I am winning with a strategy that Bob thinks can never work and he is winning with a strategy that I think is financial suicide. In his world 100% machines are the norm, comps are generous and his bankroll is allegedly unlimited. In my world, players have limited bankrolls, play 99% games at best and are lucky to get a free lunch once in a while.  I honestly don't care which strategy a player enjoys as long as they understand where they are in the food chain.

[FAA]

I honestly don't care which strategy a player enjoys as long as they understand where they are in the food chain. Max coin play on a seriously negative expectation video poker machine is
a much bigger loser than playing single coin Cheap Strategy. -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------I'm a wary guppy. I wish I could employ Dancer's moves without flatlining. I get aggressive on the rare occasion when the progressive RF hits the $1100 milestone, although this is often an indicator that the machines are on ice! Again, the word seriously is extraneous. Full pay 99.54% JOB slays me even on min coin dollar level. I've had to ban myself from those machines. I can do a handful of spins on my way out to try and make a killing on the day. That will be the extent of my involvement. Maybe just back end the pot shots entirely instead of Phil's hourly dosage.  

[Minn. Fatz]

My "cheap" strategy is to play max coin on a lower-denomination game, even if I give up (another) percent or so (and generally I don't) on the paytable. I've found that's usually better in EV terms than the several percent one gives up from getting like 50 coins back from an RF instead of 800. If -EV VP is the only game in town I'm not ashamed to play it for nickels.