Poker Today vs Poker Yesteryear

[gregorio]

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... kers-sayWe all should read this article in yesterday's Bloomberg News. Since now VP and slots are all server based, it will open your eyes!

[FloridaPhil]

Interesting article.  The discussion of if and why video poker payouts have changed could go on forever.  Personally, I believe what we are seeing is the effect of reduced odds.   Video poker involves making a lot of bets in a very short period of time.  Dropping the odds even slightly can make a big difference in long term results.  You can come to your own conclusions on that point.What it all comes down to is what you are personally going  to do about it?  As I see it we have three choices.  We can quit playing all together, we can suck it up and watch our cost to play increase or we can adjust our play to compensate.  I chose the third option and I'm happy with the results.  What I did was create a strategy that provided the challenge and excitement I was looking for with a much lower cost per hour.   Recently, I switched from quarter to dollar play and interestingly enough found the cost per hour about the same so far.  I'm not touting my strategy, I'm just providing one possible solution to the problem.  Everyone is different, so your new strategy could be much different than mine.  If you're in this game to make money or your goal is to never lose, you need to find another pastime.  You can't change the machines, but you can change how you play them. 

[notes1]

thanks for mentioning the article. my reaction is, i applaud the gambling public. if any industry/company makes their product so expensive, that it no longer provides a  value, vote with your wallet. i find it hard to believe that casinos can make up the profits of lost slot play, by serving over priced drinks to the younger crowd. this could cause change, all those who make money from the gaming business may learn that those who gamble will not just accept having their pockets picked.  remember when detroit made bad cars, consumers took their business elsewhere and american car manufacturers learned a lesson, the hard way. remember $140/barrel oil, anybody feeling sorry for those oil rich nations now that it is at $40? this is capitalism, don't like something/something is overpriced/something does not provide value...don't buy it. they will get the hint. well done gamblers!

[DaBurglar]

awesome thread, and even though no one will ever admit it or acknowledge it, many of the points I have made (as a NON-expert Casino patron and Video Poker playerwith 25 years of experience) have been reiterated or expanded upon by other posters, notably KO KING........and thanks to you KO KING for your detailed, honest posts!It does not matter what the specific GAMING regulations of a place like AC (NJ) actually SAY, or what they mean, or what they are open to in terms of INTERPRETATION.....what actually matters is HOW they are enforced and applied (and "IF" they are applied....)    I have seen since 2009 that for whatever reason, AC video poker games in general do NOT behave like their counterparts in Nevada/Las Vegas or RENO.......they just do not.......how or why this is the case I have speculated upon for years, and now others are too.....I have seen evidence (as has KO KING and a few others if past posts are to be believed) that BOTH gaming officials AND casino executives and managers are, in fact, CLUELESS about many essential and important aspects of their business and the casino games we VP players actually play......this fact/observation ALONE is enough to be extremely TROUBLING and could explain (or at least shed light upon) MANY of the questions/issues/controversy we repeatedly encounter here on this forum.......Seriously, does everyone at least AGREE or see this is the case?    Having people in places like the Office of Gaming Control/Enforcement in places like Atlantic City, who are either completely ignorant (or apathetic), or dishonest, regarding the specific gambling rules & regulations is an issue that cannot simply be dismissed or ignored....Also, given the current ongoing economic volatility in general, and given the state of the casino business in particular, with drastically reduced Returns on Investment for the HUGE corporations and individual investors (such as Israeli Prime Minister - wannabe Sheldon Adelson) who, until a decade ago reaped record profits, the integrity of the entire industry and the companies within it (and of course, the PEOPLE who are supposed to be "watching them" like the above referenced people in the New Jersey Offices of that state's regulatory body (who or whatever that is currently in NJ) is NOT above or without the very real potential of corruption, malfeasance or incompetence.    Seriously, people can no longer stick their heads in the sand and mumble the same platitudes that always worked before (such as "Oh there is just TOO much money at stake for companies to cheat".....seriously???   That logic NEVER made any sense to me)   nor can you trust in the leaky, creaky, absurdly inefficient machinery of Governmental justice or vigilance (if such concepts exist in today's world.....)      And the integrity of individual PEOPLE (such as those who are in positions of power and influence (and access) within or around the Casino Industry, in today's WORLD and Society, is NOT a concept to be trusted without any reservation or oversight......people can and do lie, cheat, steal and screw up ALL THE TIME, and this business is OBVIOUSLY no exception but in fact, carries even greater (and specific/unique risks and temptations.)As such, Video Poker in AC, New Jersey, with its now established-as-point-of-fact  state mandated rates of return from 84% to 99%, clearly is subject to yielding and returning to players (like me and all of you)  actual results which do NOT seem fair, or legit, or kosher given the previous assumptions upon which we all used to play Video Poker.     Previously, we all assumed Video Poker involved a set paytable clearly visible to us, a computerized RNG that gave us our cards each time we hit deal/draw, and that is IT!    Simplicity (and fun & enjoyment, plus a little profit) at its finest!     But then everything changed circa 2005 and now a lot of the fun & joy (and casino profit) is GONE......casinos needed to squeeze more blood out of the stones in the yard, and needed to scale back all that it gave to its players & customers, so games became less player friendly and more Technically Byzantine (which includes the NEW  RNG and three tiered "Randomness" protocols outlined in previous posts by Ko King)  But, as is now apparently a distinct possibility, in New Jersey anyway, ALL along there was the established STATE mandate of ALL SLOT MACHINES (which includes Video Poker in NJ)  must yield 84% - 99% return (and remember, these numbers are the AVERAGE!  thus, some machines could be returning almost NOTHING!)......ergo, "MANY" VP games in NJ SOMEHOW  gave back to players abysmal, seemingly "impossible" low return percentages.In conclusion, as I have been saying, VP in AC apparently is a nightmare compared with past assumptions and compared TO places like VEGAS......all along people yelled at me saying it was in my head, or that it was not possible, among other things......

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=DaBurglar]In conclusion, as I have been saying, VP in AC apparently is a nightmare
compared with past assumptions and compared TO places like
VEGAS......all along people yelled at me saying it was in my head, or
that it was not possible, among other things......[/quote]It is obvious from the consistent theme of your posts that you are totally convinced AC video poker is rigged and that the entire AC gambling regulation system is corrupt.  I don't know if you are right, but I can tell you are sincere in your belief.   The last time I was in Atlantic City, I got food poisoning in the hotel restaurant and laid in bed for two whole days.  I thought I was going to die and swore I would never go back.  If I felt as you do about the games, I wouldn't play there.  With all the casinos within driving distance, I would think you have lots of options. Based on my own personal experience and from I have been told, I'm positive I won't be either.

[rivergambler]

I have been playing VP for many years, mostly deuces bonus.  Several years ago it was rare for me to go home without hitting four deuces at least once.  In the past three years I have actually gone months without hitting four deuces.  I don't know if it is just a long streak of bad luck or if something has changed in the machines.  I keep telling myself that it is illegal for casinos to make changes to the odds of hitting four deuces on a machine, but on the other hand I have to wonder....

[FAA]

It could be worse. We could be stuck in Iowa! Anyone notice their hold percentage?
My AC experience has improved considerably this month. Yeah, I could just be lucky. But I am also much more discerning in my casino and machine selection. No recent complaints here. Keep the cocktails coming, guys!

[FAA]

Notes, there's an interesting parallel for me to your gas analogy, if you equate gas to money. Most machines are gas guzzlers. We need to find and patronize the few and far between gas sippers! You'll last a long time between fill ups on those.

[Vman96]

It could be worse. We could be stuck in Iowa! Anyone notice their hold percentage?
My AC experience has improved considerably this month. Yeah, I could just be lucky. But I am also much more discerning in my casino and machine selection. No recent complaints here. Keep the cocktails coming, guys!

9.4% hold like in Iowa is pretty standard for most jurisdictions now. Missouri was about 9.36% last month. But if you believe in the whole paytable business, these results mean nothing for VP.

[OTABILL]

Powerball isn't the best example though because the jackpot increases are actually based on amount of play.

That is more like a video poker progressive. It grows as long as there is no winner (based on amount of play) and then resets.

If progressives are being hit less often with fewer players... well that is to be expected. But I guess that is another subject.

We have noticed that the meter by which the progressive jackpot increases on all hands is much slower than in the past. That seems to be one area where casinos can change payouts legally and openly.