Is Video Poker a Game of Skill or Luck

[Vman96]

The biggest math problem is 99.54% on 9/6 jacks. Most of us can't get there with poker play alone. It's more like 97.54%.

?? That's about the expected return if you can't hit a royal. I barely make mistakes in jacks. Jacks is ridiculously easy to play vs. other games. Assuming the game is fair, you'll often find yourself somewhere between 98% and 101% if you play "long enough" with max coin. I personally haven't. I'm royalless on the game, and any other "full pay" game.   

[Rebus]

[QUOTE=BobDancer]
They have a 0.625% slot club there and generous comps...If you are getting the percentage off of the casino's vpFREE entry, it might be off by a decimal point (or a factor of 10). They refer it as $4 coin in per point, and 400 points for a $1 worth of comps. [/QUOTE]Good catch, alpax. The slot club info on vpFREE2.com seems correct to me. $1/(400x$4) = .000625 = .0625% not the .625% Bob shows in his post. (Sorry, Bob.)

[notes1]

[QUOTE=alpax] [QUOTE=BobDancer]
They have a 0.625% slot club there and generous comps...If you are getting the percentage off of the casino's vpFREE entry, it might be off by a decimal point (or a factor of 10). They refer it as $4 coin in per point, and 400 points for a $1 worth of comps. [/QUOTE]Good catch, alpax. The slot club info on vpFREE2.com seems correct to me. $1/(400x$4) = .000625 = .0625% not the .625% Bob shows in his post. (Sorry, Bob.)[/QUOTE]
 i can give some actual results, just went there in early january. played approx 27 hours over a 48 hour time period, single line ($1.25)(DDB-TDB), approx 600 hands/hr, for approx $20k total coin in. got total of $140 of bounceback, for use over a limited time period. works out to less than 0.007. i would not call that generous. only been to hollywood once, great property. problem was they concentrate on slots, not VP, at that time limited number of machines. tampa is much larger, plenty of quarter machines. someone mentioned change in management, makes sense. because i have noticed they are not quite as receptive to lower limit players like me, as they used to be.

[BobDancer]

[QUOTE=alpax] [QUOTE=BobDancer]
They have a 0.625% slot club there and generous comps...If you are getting the percentage off of the casino's vpFREE entry, it might be off by a decimal point (or a factor of 10). They refer it as $4 coin in per point, and 400 points for a $1 worth of comps. [/QUOTE]Good catch, alpax. The slot club info on vpFREE2.com seems correct to me. $1/(400x$4) = .000625 = .0625% not the .625% Bob shows in his post. (Sorry, Bob.)[/QUOTE]My mistake. Sorry.I read 0.0625% in vpfree2, and that's what I assumed it was when I was writing my post. Clearly I dropped a zero when I was keying it in.With a 0.0625% slot club and generous comps and mailers, playing $1 9/6 JoB there is a positive game. There are some swings, and many players whine when they are on a negative swing, but if you can keep you head and realize that it's the long term that matters and not today's score, the swings are less in that game than in any other video poker game.Since FP professes to be a multi-millionaire, I don't understand why swings on a dollar JoB game are so traumatic to him

[BobDancer]

  i can give some actual results, just went there in early january. played approx 27 hours over a 48 hour time period, single line ($1.25)(DDB-TDB), approx 600 hands/hr, for approx $20k total coin in. got total of $140 of bounceback, for use over a limited time period. works out to less than 0.007. i would not call that generous.  I would call 0.7% generous --- when you combine it with a 99.54% game and a 0.0625 slot club. That gives you a 0.3% advantage + comps. (notes1 was playing a tighter game. It's possible mailers on dollar 9/6 JoB comes at a lower percentage. I haven't tested it. But it doesn't sound difficult for players who live there to test.)This is in a locale where players complain there are no positive games so they HAVE TO play the silly CS. Max coin players at that casino can play with an advantage --- if they open their eyesBob

[DaBurglar]

[QUOTE=notes1]   i can give some actual results, just went there in early january. played approx 27 hours over a 48 hour time period, single line ($1.25)(DDB-TDB), approx 600 hands/hr, for approx $20k total coin in. got total of $140 of bounceback, for use over a limited time period. works out to less than 0.007. i would not call that generous.  I would call 0.7% generous --- when you combine it with a 99.54% game and a 0.0625 slot club. That gives you a 0.3% advantage + comps. (notes1 was playing a tighter game. It's possible mailers on dollar 9/6 JoB comes at a lower percentage. I haven't tested it. But it doesn't sound difficult for players who live there to test.)This is in a locale where players complain there are no positive games so they HAVE TO play the silly CS. Max coin players at that casino can play with an advantage --- if they open their eyesBob[/QUOTE]What Locale EXACTLY are we talking about here since I was following notes1 posts and bob is quoting and responding to Notes1 post yet Bob is implying a different "locale"  with a "silly CS"????     And  WTH  is "Silly CS"  exactly ? 

[alpax]

DaBurglar, the locale that is being referred to is the Hard Rock casino jurisdiction in the state of Florida. The silly CS is just Mr. Dancer's way of expressing his thoughts of how playing single coin progressive system on a sub 99% return game is inferior in terms of long term results to playing $1 or even $2 Jacks or Better at max coin bet when the player is sufficiently bankrolled.

[notes1]

sorry ted, i will likely exceed your word limit. i have never played CS, nor have i endorsed it and as i have mentioned, it gets too much print, for the number of players who use it. it seems to find a way to creep into every topic. but, that does not mean i am opposed to any discussion about how to get better value from VP. as far as tampa goes, i live in NC, so i have limited experience/info on their entire program. i do not play JOB, do not play dollar games. but, if all dancer has stated is accurate, then there is a positive game to be found there. i stand corrected. i have played there about 5-6 times and never received any mailers that offered more than bounceback, other than general drawings. the only place to use comp dollars is on food, a very limited gift shop and a mail order catalog, with over priced crap. i would not put much value in any of that. so, if one wants to play a game they do not enjoy, at a denomination they do not want to play and count the value of over valued comps, i guess one could rightfully consider this a casino, where one could theorectically win money.  if i understand the math correctly, this would mean that if someone would put $2m through the machine, everything worked out as expected, one would win $6k, including bounceback, which has no guarantee of having any value. if they were under royaled, they are a big loser.

[BobDancer]

if i understand the math correctly, this would mean that if someone would put $2m through the machine, everything worked out as expected, one would win $6k, including bounceback, which has no guarantee of having any value. if they were under royaled, they are a big loser.Yes you understand the math. Are there any 2x or higher point opportunities? Are there any drawings? Are there any other promotions with financial ramifications? Assuming vanilla conditions 100% of the time is hardly realistic.Even spending comp dollars on over-priced stuff gives you things you can sell on eBay. It's "free" comp dollars, so it's not like you're spending real money.Insofar as a "guarantee" goes, that's not part of gambling. If you insist on a guarantee, you're playing the wrong game.  Your point about not liking the game is relevant. I highly recommend gambling only if you enjoy yourself --- in addition to playing a positive game. If you don't enjoy yourself, why put yourself through misery? 

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Notes1] I have never played CS, nor have i endorsed it and as i have mentioned,
it gets too much print, for the number of players who use it.[/quote]I couldn't agree more.  I'm bored with the entire subject.