The facts

[ravenbynight111]

casinos are not interested in players winning, Vegas has lost so many players just from my city. I know at least 20 players here in SA that would make 4 to 5 trips a year to Vegas. Now they drive 5 hours to La were the comps are still decent. My last 5 times at lac in lake Charles I cashed 4 times. I won nothing on the normal vp machines, but I have one multi line ultimate x machine that always pays a couple big hits. In January I got a ton of emails from Mgm group for free rooms, food etc. I don't go to Vegas at all. So that tells me there hurting, there greed and bad mgmt has cost them millions.

[DrawingDead]

I have lived in Henderson NV for 12 years now. I quit playing in the casinos. Not from lack of winning but I just got bored of it. Still plenty of players out here though.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ravenbynight11] I don't go to Vegas at all. So that tells me there hurting, there greed and bad mgmt has cost them millions.[/quote]I don't think your statement is a totally fair.  Their major problems come from increased competition from regional casinos, over development and changes in people's behavior.  Except for Texas and Georgia, there is a casino of some sort within a few hours drive of any major city in the country.  Our casinos in Florida are full of retirees and tourists and some days it's hard to get a seat.My wife and I used to make multiple annual trips to Vegas and we loved it.  We don't go to Vegas anymore because it's lost most of it's character.  You can drive down the strip these days and all you see is condos and tall buildings. It looks more like a shopping mall than a casino.  The clerks and casino employees treat you like a cattle drive and unless you're betting suitcases full of money getting something for free is like begging for a root canal.  Finally, young people see Vegas as a place to hook up rather than a place to gamble and most don't have the dispensable income of their parent's generation.  I don't see how they are going to fix these problems either.  Their problems are shared with all the casinos in the US. I suspect the entire industry will become a bankruptcy attorney's wet dream, until the competition is paired down to a point where only the fittest survive.

[ravenbynight111]

you let people, wet there beak they will give it back in most cases, but just last week I ran down to Kickapoo casino in eagle pass Texas. They only have a few vp machines and they are so bad, there was no problem getting a machine, there slots were just as bad. I will not return. You have to let people think they have chance to win. I know this you let a player win a 2000 or 2500 jackpot in most cases they will give all back and some of there own. When they get home friends will ask how was there trip was and they will mention the jackpot they won. They don't say how much they lost. Human nature

[FloridaPhil]

[quote]When they get home friends will ask how was there trip was and they will
mention the jackpot they won. They don't say how much they lost. Human
nature[/quote]Sure. Very few people make money gambling. I did for about three years straight, but you couldn't buy much with my winnings.There are many casinos across this country with VP odds so bad no strategy will make you a winner.   This seems to be getting worse lately.   An example is New Mexico and to some extend Mississippi.  You really need to look hard to find good games in these states.  Mississippi is especially bad because they take 3% off the top of every hand pay in taxes.Some players find better games at higher denominations.  Unfortunately this often just makes your loses even bigger.  Professionals say there are advantage games are still out there, but I am not willing to play big enough to find out.   We gave up playing bad games about a year ago and while it didn't make us winners, it did cut our hourly losses substantially.   Our goal is to enjoy ourselves while keeping as much of our money as possible.  As recreational players, that's about the best you can ask for.

[case]

Vegas makes more money from nightclubs and restaurants than they do from gambling. This started to change after the recession of 2008-2009. So while gambling revenue is down spending on shows and shopping is up 26 percent and   average per-visitor spend on dining on the Strip has grown by 29 percent. These figures are from the last decade.

So yes less people are gambling but Vegas is doing better overall. Vegas has the means to reinvent itself and has done so.

[Tedlark]

Case and yet I said the same thing here few years ago and I was told that I was wrong.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=case]Vegas makes more money from nightclubs and restaurants than they do from
gambling. This started to change after the recession of 2008-2009. So
while gambling revenue is down spending on shows and shopping is up 26
percent and   average per-visitor spend on dining on the Strip has grown
by 29 percent. These figures are from the last decade.
[/quote]Makes sense to me.  "What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas" is brilliant even if nothing actually happens. 

[DaBurglar]

This is an excellent thread so far and should be held up as an example of the type of discussion that truly stimulates even more excellent exchanges and sharing of opinions and information.  While I have not had the chance to verify a few of the figures and numbers stipulated by other posters in this thread concerning the exact nature of the Vegas business model these days, I will take them at face value and assume they are 100% correct.     just As tedlark claimed for himself, Many people have known for years that Vegas has had to diversify and alter its paradigm and business model from being gambling-centric to what is now called "everything-centric".......Vegas is indeed now "All things to all people"....Vegas is probably the ONLY current city in the world with the ability and infrastructure (not to mention Head start) to TRULY become a destination that is all things to all visitors (i.e. it has the ability to PROFITABLY cater to just about every demographic and economic strata and income level.)    Obviously the gambling is still the most PROMINENT SINGLE aspect of the city's economy, but everything else, FOOD/dining, entertainment, attractions, tourism, cultural & historical venues, etc.  are ALL melding into one big huge entity with self supporting overlaps and beneficial redundancy.....Vegas is now a example of economic perpetual motion.Obviously the days of making money hand over fist from simply getting people to come and gamble (while "incidentally" spending money on other things, unless they blew so much money that they could be comp'd)  are long gone.The biggest threat(s) to Vegas long term success are several, but in my OPINION, the burgeoning INCOME/WEALTH  inequality and gap that keeps growing is causing problems for Vegas.......anyone disagree (or agree) with that assessment?  I will pause from elaborating on this to allow someone else to chime in......

[Eduardo]

Are you saying you once believed casinos were interested in players winning? I've never had that impression about casinos. They don't pay for those tall towers, fancy billboards and flashing lights with buffet tips. I play because it's fun, and sometimes I will win. I expect to lose most of the time. But I also don't whine about it, because I know what to expect. I think that is the case with most people who go to Vegas.