Question on big payouts in bars.

[daily_double]

I would gladly set up a personal challenge if both parties request it. However I don't feel a member vote would be appropriate.



Good man, I don't think it would be appropriate either. But whether you or anyone else likes it or not, I already voted, with my wallet.

[daily_double]

Sorry to hear you are not pleased with my posts.  I am also sorry Mr. Dancer and his followers have such thin skin.   If you are going to put yourself out there as the world's greatest video poker player, you need to be prepared to back up your claims.I never claimed I was an expert at anything.  He attacked me because I created a purely  recreational strategy that a lot of forum members enjoyed and I might add never harmed anyone.  At the time, I clearly stated CS was recreational but some folks thought I was trying to take overtake Mr. Dancer as the resident expert.  Compared to the damage caused by players attempting to duplicate Mr. Dancer's claimed results, I am a rank amateur.


Typical Phil response, Dancer followers are thin skinned and everyone is attacking him. Same old BS. Nobody ever attacked you. They just told you your system was doomed to fail eventually and that you should restrict your system touting to the rec forum. That's hardly an attack.

[daily_double]

No one that is trying to better there game can get behind anyone that believes in the CS. I do believe that recently some have realized the CS is not the best strategy. We all learn from our mistakes or we go broke.
I have learned to even back away from 8/6 or 9/5 JOB 100 play because because that 1.5% you give up will eat away at your bank roll.


Florida phil posted last week that he has abandoned CS and the martingale. Everyone should abandon it. God only knows how many peoples games he has screwed up because he was allowed to relentlessly tout that mess

[BobDancer]

  Bob Dancer is a fictional character created
by a partnership between the gaming industry and a person who makes
money selling products and services to gamblers.  There is nothing wrong with this as long as you don't get caught up in the hype. The truth is the casino is there to take your money, not provide you with a nice six figure income. 

















I don't think FP is capable of not posting. And on the way out the door (according to him) he repeats the same old libelous tirade he has made repeatedly.For the record, Bob Dancer is not a fictional character. Yes it's a pseudonym, but I'm a real author, teacher, and player and the claims I make for myself are true. People know what I look like and how to find me. Thousands of people have seen me in casinos. I'm hardly a fictional character."a partnership between the gaming industry and me?????" Hardly. I have a deal to teach classes, two casinos and this site to sponsor a radio show (both activities give solid advice to players), but other than that I have no deals with any casino. (Maybe he's including videopoker.com. If so, I do get royalties from helping create Video Poker for Winners. But I was hired as a knowledgeable expert --- NOT as a spokesman who is going to peddle untruths. If you were looking for a knowledgeable expert to represent your video poker product, and you had your choice of anyone in the world, who would you pick?)There are dozens of people on this site who have attended one or more classes and/or listened to one or more of the radio broadcasts. I strongly doubt anyone who has done either will conclude that I'm glorifying casinos. I sell books, yes. I've spent between 3,000 and 4,000 hours writing the 10 books I sell. I continue to write. I have played perhaps 30,000 hours. I've been teaching for 19 years, to a total of more than 50,000 unique people. I am well qualified to give video poker advice.There has been no hype. If you read my posts I tell you that there are a few players who make big money - probably several hundred who make $15,000 a year or more and probably a few tens of thousands who make $1 a year or more. Those are reasonable guesses from a knowledgeable observer. How is that hype?  If your estimates are different from mine, fine, but I'm guessing I know more winning players than you do.I have never suggested someone can come in and make six figures playing video poker. FP implies I say that all the time. He's wrong. In other posts he claims I'm a shill for casinos. The usual definition of a shill is a person who sits at a gaming table and plays (using house money) so that other players will join the game. I do nothing of the kind.He claims I make more from being a shill than I do from gambling. Oh really. He doesn't know how much, within a half million dollars, how much I've earned gambling over the past 10 years. Nor does he know within $100,000 how much I've made in royalties, teaching fees, radio sponsorship arrangements, consulting (very little of that), etc. Presumably he's including all of these things when he speaks of being a shill. And somehow he magically knows that the second figure is larger than the first. He's very wrong, but he makes up for it by repeating himself over and over again.If he wants to say he doesn't believe my claims, fine. Say it. But he says it dozens and dozens of times with no evidence whatsoever. That pretty much fits the definition of libel.And he constantly complains I unfairly pick on him.I personally believe this forum would be better off if FP were asked to leave for a year or three.Is there anyone out there who agrees with me?

[billslim]

Well. I appreciate you Bob and I don't want you to leave this forum. I also don't mind FP. I take everything with a grain of salt. I do believe that FP gets upset too easy with some of things BD writes. If I had to choose, I would take BD over FP but it would be a shame that it would come to that.

[alpax]

Thank you Mr. Dancer for providing the insights of your play at Dotty's earlier before the topic took a different turn. I hope the games last even at the higher dollar denominations, for myself I would prioritize playing at places where hotel stays are part of mailers (going to go from Boyd to Southpoint whenever my welcome is gone). The day where it becomes more worth it to pay for hotel stays out of pocket rather than the expected loss of the game, I'll focus on playing at Dotty's.

Thank you daily_double for being cutthroat about FP's involvement with this forum. You clearly understand what it takes to make VP a cost controlled and great value hobby at the least; some people who are mathematically challenged have to see tax returns, and even if they get to see it, they will not be able to analyze a favorable opportunity anyhow. You did not have to enroll in GOLD to access this forum (well one part is excluded for non-GOLD), it is mainly for playing the online games free of advertisement and have early access to the newer gimmick games. If it was to contribute towards the cost of running the forum, I understand your cancellation.

With regards to the strife between FP and Mr. Dancer,
to be fair and reasonable, it was FP who instigated made remarks about Mr. Dancer's being in every way. If you scroll through the Recreational Forum on posts dated from the Spring of 2015 you will see more than enough remarks where FP made remarks. I do not blame Mr. Dancer for reacting to protect his reputation. The conflict did not arise with the CS.

FP strikes to me as someone with some serious gambling issues and should be the one consulting Gambler's Anonymous and have accountability partners. I always viewed FP living under Social Security income checks based on the desire to play with CS. The reluctantly to even play higher denominations where the pay schedules are superior is also a thought. I do not care if there is any truth, I have personal doubts myself that FP ran a successful business because of the fact of the stubbornness and the fact that FP shows no effort to become better despite a ton of good advice given to him over the years. It is also my opinion to think that FP blew away a good chunk of retirement funds playing irresponsibly at Beau Rivage and $1 8/5 DDB. And the jealousy of the dream Mr. Dancer got to experience. I could go on some more but this should not be about bashing.

I do hope that FP spends time off to seek help. FP has probably worked hard for many years, and deserves to have fun and enjoy life; but RESPONSIBLY though.

Video poker is looking to be one of the best things to ever happen to Mr. Dancer, but it is looking to be one of the worst things to ever happen to FP.

Forgot to respond: I would want Mr. Dancer to remain.

[OTABILL]

The definition of a forum is " A place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged." Both Bob Dancer and Florida Phil have expressed their ideas and views here. They should both be encouraged to do so regardless of whether we agree, disagree or could care less about what is said provided all is done civilly without personal recriminations.

[notes1]

FP strikes to me as someone with some serious gambling issues and should be the one consulting Gambler's Anonymous and have accountability partners. I always viewed FP living under Social Security income checks based on the desire to play with CS. The reluctantly to even play higher denominations where the pay schedules are superior is also a thought. I do not care if there is any truth, I have personal doubts myself that FP ran a successful business because of the fact of the stubbornness and the fact that FP shows no effort to become better despite a ton of good advice given to him over the years. It is also my opinion to think that FP blew away a good chunk of retirement funds playing irresponsibly at Beau Rivage and $1 8/5 DDB. And the jealousy of the dream Mr. Dancer got to experience. I could go on some more but this should not be about bashing.
 not only are you a dancer wannabe, but now you are an amatuer psychiatrist and addiction expert. your hero often uses the term word 'libelous', your statements seem to fit the bill. as for the rest of the dancer cult members, you can buy his stuff, listen to his radio show, watch some kind of podcast and get lessons directly from him. how much more do you need? if you ask him nicely and send him a check, maybe he will send you a lock of his hair, you can put under your pillow. i may not subscribe to many of FP beliefs/plays, but he has every right to present them to the forum.

[Vman96]

Wow, this thread blew up.

Bob had a right to defend himself here, but all Florida Phil initially was thinking Dotty's was a poor little bar and not being able to pay $100k, not some significant casino conglomerate like Dotty's actually is! They own as many machines as a major casino now! And likely Phil didn't actually read Bob's article (would have required a google search at the time he posted) to realize it was Dotty's in the first place, so his "joke" was well justified!!!

But Bob mildly attacked Phil in his response because Bob completely missed the context of his original post, imo. Expecting someone from Florida to be aware of the Dotty's empire is unfair as well! A NORMAL pub would definitely NOT be able to immediately pay $100k!

At least Florida Phil doesn't question the randomness of the games like some here. Maybe because he ran very well in his single-coin experiment...haha See, this is the mild jab you should be putting in Bob!

Bob has been exploiting Dotty's for years apparently, but it's a VERY high variance move.   If you ran like the poorest runners on this site...you could be out a million playing $25 VP Bob! 10 Royal-less cycles is a million bucks! It happens to 1 in 22,029 people (1/e^10) in a fair game who play 10 cycles! And it's been claimed on this site before! Of course they sometimes question whether the game is fair where they play, but can you blame them? Hell, I was approaching 3 cycles myself until August last year. I don't want to even imagine being down $300k on VP thanks to a Royal not coming in. But hopefully you have a 7-digit bankroll for these swings. I'm a bit curious how many hands your longest royal drought has been. You've played enough hands where it might be a doozy!   

And I'm also a bit surprised you're bringing this story up. The W2-G promo looks to be more valuable than the mailers right now. And if Dotty's felt like it, they could cut their cash back to 0.25% (still fair for VP by many casinos) and get rid of the W2-G promo, then the advantage would be poof! You'd stop playing there then, correct? Good news is that slot players keep Dotty's lights on. And I assume you have a handful local casinos where you are grinding out a hundred or two a week on. It adds up when there are dozens of casinos! Many of us have ten or less to choose from in 50 miles, including Florida Phil.   

And finally...alpax...maybe you want to read your post again. I thought Bob was a bit harsh, but damn. Just because FP doesn't completely minimize his losses through game and location choice, doesn't necessarily mean he is a problem gambler or even was incapable of running a successful business. Also the stories I read from FP and others about the Beau, hell, I felt that place was probably giving a 1-2% coin-in "bounceback" via rooms, free play, etc. It was still negative overall sure, but not as bad as the paytables directly indicated.

That's mainly how the game works now. Lose more initially, but the casino gives "blah" back to you. If "blah" is worth more than what you expect to lose, then you're ahead of the game! I play 99.66% BP at my local instead of 99.8% TB+ because the "blah" out of the machine is much higher! And speaking of the Beau, they apparently have 10/6 Straight Flush Deluxe (99.12%) for dollars now!      But the big question...what's the "bounceback" on THAT machine!

[alpax]

not only are you a dancer wannabe, but now you are an amatuer psychiatrist and addiction expert. your hero often uses the term word 'libelous', your statements seem to fit the bill. as for the rest of the dancer cult members, you can buy his stuff, listen to his radio show, watch some kind of podcast and get lessons directly from him. how much more do you need? if you ask him nicely and send him a check, maybe he will send you a lock of his hair, you can put under your pillow. i may not subscribe to many of FP beliefs/plays, but he has every right to present them to the forum.


At the very least I've stated the reasons why it signs of a problematic. Forcing yourself to play ten hours every week on a game where the house has a big edge and complaining about losing lots of money is problematic to me, not to you.

I did not come here to make buddies, I came here to learn. In return for the help I've received, I help other people learn what I learned. If people lost dignity for wanting to up their game with what this website and Mr. Dancer has to offer that so be it. I do not see playing with a huge house edge as a sense of pride.

I do not give a rats ass what you think. I do not respect you anymore after what you said in that Harrah's Metropolis in the past. So I'll get out the F of your face and likewise you do the same. One thing for damn sure is I am not going to act like a crybaby. People get older, but it does not mean they are growing up.

Successful people go out and find ways to succeed even when crap hits the fan along the way.