Question on big payouts in bars.

[alpax]

And finally...alpax...maybe you want to read your post again. I thought Bob was a bit harsh, but damn. Just because FP doesn't completely minimize his losses through game and location choice, doesn't necessarily mean he is a problem gambler or even was incapable of running a successful business. Also the stories I read from FP and others about the Beau, hell, I felt that place was probably giving a 1-2% coin-in "bounceback" via rooms, free play, etc. It was still negative overall sure, but not as bad as the paytables directly indicated.

That's mainly how the game works now. Lose more initially, but the casino gives "blah" back to you. If "blah" is worth more than what you expect to lose, then you're ahead of the game! I play 99.66% BP at my local instead of 99.8% TB+ because the "blah" out of the machine is much higher! And speaking of the Beau, they apparently have 10/6 Straight Flush Deluxe (99.12%) for dollars now!      But the big question...what's the "bounceback" on THAT machine!

I caught your post afterwards, but I admit that I got frustrated there. But thanks for stepping in and serving as the mediator.

Not going to edit out what was said before so that it is completely available, I apologize to FP when he wakes up and happens to see this thread. Made a poor judgement on my part on making such comments outside the realm of video poker. I just hope for the best/happiness for FP whatever it may be, and I will step away from FP-Dancer saga.

I'll take a break from this forum (still got a trip report to write) while it settles itself out, won't have much time to make VP trips.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=Vman96] I thought Bob was a bit harsh, but damn. Just because FP doesn't
completely minimize his losses through game and location choice, doesn't
necessarily mean he is a problem gambler or even was incapable of
running a successful business[/quote]I said I would defend myself and I will.  I am a 69 year old semiretired business owner.  My wife is a successful Realtor.  We both enjoy video poker purely as recreation.  For the record, we both have annual six figure incomes, separate bank accounts and multi-million dollar investment portfolios.  We do not think of ourselves as rich and considering our resources live a fairly frugal lifestyle.  We enjoy frequent video poker vacations where we normally play a minimum of 3-4 days in a row.  I play one day each week at the Tampa or Hollywood Hard Rocks.I met my wife when she was 15 years old and we celebrated our 50th wedding anniversary last year.  I am a grandfather with three grandsons.  My son still owns and operates the computer services business I started when I was 23 years old in Miami.  To keep myself busy, I manage a number of business websites and work part time as a content writer and small business consultant.  This puts me in front of the computer all day, which is why I spend so much time on this forum.The most money I have ever lost in a day playing video poker is $2,000 playing $1 deuces wild.  That evening, I hit three quad deuces in 20 minutes and got my money back.  I love playing video poker, but I can't stand losing money which is why I will never have a gambling problem. The only time I have ever made a profit of any kind from video poker long term is when I played quarter CS over a three year period.   I abandoned CS last fall because I wanted to experience more max coin royal flush jackpots and decided I could afford to do so, not because I didn't think it served it's purpose.   The whole idea of CS as a recreational strategy is to extend play, minimize loses and increase excitement, not make a profit.  For those purposes, it worked as described.It's very easy to be misinterpreted on this forum.  I see humor in everything and I suspect others do as well.  Sometimes comments that are made as a joke (like my comment about the bar jackpot) are taken as criticism when they actually aren't.  This is a problem both me and some others have in common, which causes our disagreements to escalate out of control.    I'll do my best to keep this from happening.  I hope others do likewise.

[notes1]

[QUOTE=notes1]
not only are you a dancer wannabe, but now you are an amatuer psychiatrist and addiction expert. your hero often uses the term word 'libelous', your statements seem to fit the bill. as for the rest of the dancer cult members, you can buy his stuff, listen to his radio show, watch some kind of podcast and get lessons directly from him. how much more do you need? if you ask him nicely and send him a check, maybe he will send you a lock of his hair, you can put under your pillow. i may not subscribe to many of FP beliefs/plays, but he has every right to present them to the forum.


At the very least I've stated the reasons why it signs of a problematic. Forcing yourself to play ten hours every week on a game where the house has a big edge and complaining about losing lots of money is problematic to me, not to you.

I did not come here to make buddies, I came here to learn. In return for the help I've received, I help other people learn what I learned. If people lost dignity for wanting to up their game with what this website and Mr. Dancer has to offer that so be it. I do not see playing with a huge house edge as a sense of pride.

I do not give a rats ass what you think. I do not respect you anymore after what you said in that Harrah's Metropolis in the past. So I'll get out the F of your face and likewise you do the same. One thing for damn sure is I am not going to act like a crybaby. People get older, but it does not mean they are growing up.

Successful people go out and find ways to succeed even when crap hits the fan along the way.[/QUOTE]
 what are you talking about? i have never been to Metropolis, never commented on it and do not even know where it is or what it is.  you have made assumptions about posters before and were wrong and you have attempted to explain/interpret others posts and been corrected, including by your hero.  folks play VP for lots of reasons, mostly entertainment. 'forcing' one's self to play vp for 10 hours, another statement i do not understand. whoever said that?  might i suggest some therapy.

[notes1]

vman, as you often do, a fair and balanced post. i also had no idea of what a dotty's was/is, i too would wonder about getting paid from my local pub. as far as those (me) who question the randomness of all machines in every casino, let me remind all, that dancer himself has mentioned a book/author, stating indian casinos are a license to steal. he may not be suggesting randomness of machines, but i/m/o, it would not be a stretch to imply it could happen. we already know that some jurisdictions have little or no inspections. as to the arguement to play elsewhere, in some cases it is simply impractical. NC/GA/TENN/SC has only one casino within reach. in NY, indian casinos have protected monoploies.  i enjoyed reading your calculations about what could be the cost of playing, w/out hitting a royal. while it may be long odds to go 10 cycles w/out a royal, it is not far-fetched that one could go a number of cycles, be unlucky and go belly up. it seems only fair to me, that if one wants to mention their big wins, that they also mention what it cost them, to achieve it. and, just just the cost of the single session, but of the combined play.  

[edog743]

I wish Mr. Dancer would quantify his statement about tribal casinos also. They have to adhere to a gaming compact state inspection and federal government oversight. Non-tribal businesses do not have the federal government looking over their shoulders.

[BobDancer]

I wish Mr. Dancer would quantify his statement about tribal casinos also. They have to adhere to a gaming compact state inspection and federal government oversight. Non-tribal businesses do not have the federal government looking over their shoulders.I'm not trying to pick on edog's English, but I'm assuming he meant "qualify" my previous statement rather than "quantify." Otherwise, I don't know what he was asking me to do.Notes referred to me quoting attorney Bob Nersesian when he wrote in his new book, The Law for Gamblers, "Indian casinos have a license to steal. It's just that simple."Nersesian was referring to situations where players get in trouble at casinos and the court that decides whether they are guilty or not is a court made up of tribal elders. The elders have an inherent conflict of interest. Nersesian's point is that you need outside arbiters to decide things. In my personal case, the only tribal casino I've played at for significant money was Viejas casino, east of San Diego, CA. For most of their casino they had really tight video poker. In their high-limit room, they had the loosest high limit video poker of any place in the world --- so far as I know. Far looser than any casino in Las Vegas.For $25 single line or $5 Triple Play, Five Play, and Ten Play, for example, you could play 8/5 Super Aces, 10/6/40 Double Double Bonus, and Two Pair Joker W/ild. All of these games return more than 99.9% --- and they have a 0.1% slot club --- with mailers and promotions. (I did receive $1,000 in one drawing.)And, oh yeah, they had accurate autohold. I learned Super Aces at the 100%-accuracy level, and the autohold was ALWAYS correct. (I had a 100%-accurate strategy for Two Pair Joker Wild, but it had been several years since I played it and it's VERY complicated. It would have taken me several hours to get up to speed again to check to see if the auto-hold was correct. I didn't bother because Super Aces has a very simple strategy and returns the same amount.) It's been a couple of years and I don't know the current inventory. I was at the casino primarily to play Card Craps --- a far more lucrative game --- and they pulled that maybe three years ago and I haven't been back.I didn't personally run into any trouble there --- and ended up $50K ahead for my play there over five 2-day trips. That total, while accurate, is misleading because the last trip I hit $10,000 sets of aces five times in three hours on $5 Five Play and ended up that one trip $30,000 ahead. My other four trips only averaged $5K ahead apiece. For just the video poker, even though it was slightly positive, it was too far to go for too little of an edge.I made those trips before I ever met Bob Nersesian. Now I've listened to him on the show perhaps 10 times and several times went out for a drink or snack afterwards, I probably will avoid Indian casinos if at all possible. (I did go to Harrah's Southern California, formerly called Harrah's Rincon, last year when we were nearby because of a too-good-to-pass-up amount of free play to pick up. Officially it's a tribal casino, but it's also a Harrah's and I pretty know what to expect.)If they offer me a similar amount this year, I may go again. If edog wants to start his own thread about Indian casinos, that's fine with me, but I have little to add to the discussion over what I've said here.

[daily_double]

I've made way too much noise here for a guy who has contributed very little. I take what I can use and I leave the rest behind . Obviously, I am a rec player just like Phil , and I think as Dancer wrote, 99.99% of the members here are. No way should Phil be asked to leave for any amount of time. He shouldn't even restrict himself to the rec and casino rooms . That's the way VP.com is set up , and I will respect that. I definitely regret instigating and/or participating in the pissing contest (still not sure what I did ). Definitely won't be participating in any such action again. Good luck to you all

[Chicagoan]

On several occasions Bob Dancer has referred to certain of FP's remarks as being "libelous." For the record, I would like to mention that in my state that is most likely an accusation that wouldn't stand up in a court of law, although I absolutely do not claim to have any knowledge or experience of the law in either Nevada or Florida, the domiciles of Mr. Dancer and FP.
First, can Mr. Dancer even be libeled, as he operates on this board under a pseudonym. The answer to that is a qualified "yes", because despite the pseudonym some of the other participants on this board have knowledge of who he really is, and anyone can, with minimal effort, identify the real person as the individual allegedly being libeled in the name of the pseudonym.
However, Mr. Dancer is what is referred to as a "limited purpose public figure." While he is perhaps not well known to the population in general, he is exceptionally well known to the video poker playing population, in my personal opinion. Thus, among the video poker playing population he could be considered a public figure, but only insofar as his video poker expertise and video poker activities. Courts have held that a "limited purpose public figure" cannot be libeled when the alleged slanderous remarks are *strictly limited* to the activities that have resulted in the public figure being recognized and well-known. Thus, FP could not libel Mr. Dancer for remarks that are strictly limited to video poker, but he could libel him for remarks concerning, just for example, Mr. Dancer's relationships, or for anything outside the sphere of video poker.
(These comments are strictly of my personal opinion only and certainly are not intended nor should they be taken as legal advice.)   

[FloridaPhil]

This is ridiculous.  As far as I am concerned this discussion is over.  I am happy to keep my theories and discussions on the Recreational Forum and let others say whatever they want without having a rebuttal from me.  I have nothing personal against anyone on this forum or anywhere else.  I have no axe to grind and no one to get even with.  Let's get back to playing video poker....

[olds442jetaway]

Thanks vman for the numbers on the Royalless cycles. I guess I am in that 1 in 22k crowd, not once but 2 1/2 times. On the deal line this year, up to 210k hands. On both of my prior Royalless cycles, it was well over 500k before one hit. I still find this hard to believe, everything else is hitting right on schedule and as you know, my samples are pretty large. Another 6k hands or so last night without one. Luckily, many of those hands were on the nickel multi strike game on the bottom line. I still get a 98% plus return on that game long term for nickels.