buying a pizza

[notes1]

if you live in a place with a large population, you can normally find a variety of pizzerias, get the kind you like and with a little effort, find someone who has it on sale. but, if you live in a one stop light town, there may be only one pizza place. you either pay the price they ask, travel some distance to get a better deal (losing the savings with travel expense) or go without it.   isn't this like VP for many folks? some live in a place with limited, sometimes just one casino. they could travel and the expenses might eat up any potential advantage , play what they can get or they just do not play. if you live in a place with a vast selection, it is easier to find games that are more competitive, and with an effort find someone who has VP 'on sale'. 

[Eduardo]

I like the way you think.

[Galeygoo]

I second that motion of an analogy.   Lucky for me; have MANY great pizza places to chose from,  too.

[billryan]

I went to college in a small town in upstate NY. I knew I was in trouble when I walked in and asked how much a pie was and was told we don't sell pie, only pizza. I tried it anyway, and as expected, it sucked. So I didn't eat pizza in that town. I discovered something I'd never heard of before- buffalo wings.
If the only VP around you sux, don't play it.
I currently live five miles from a casino. Never stepped foot in it because all they offer are video lottery machines that look like VP but are slot machines.
So how bad does a pizza place need to be before you stop eating pizza while in that town?
I owned a bar that had a Broadway Poker aka Joker Poker machine. It had good payout but it was a VLM and was set to pay 65% of what went into it.Myself and its owner split the rest. Had it for three years and never put a dime into it. Took tens of thousands out of it, though. loved watching people with their systems. No joker for eight hands so they triple their bet. Another guy told me if you got a pair of twos, always double up because four twos comes in more often than any other foursome.

[notes1]

if you are willing to discuss something civilized, i will reply. if it meant never eating pizza until that once every couple of years when you travel to a great pizza city, most folks are not wiling to wait that long. they would rather eat a pizza that was less than perfect, than none at all. if you are that disciplined to only eat great pizza, good for you. you are in the minority, just as all those who will only play VP if they have an advantage. the rest of us are just trying to eat the best pizza we can and get it at a price we can afford. b/t/w, i spent my first 30 years in upstate NY, from the city that created the chicken wing, and rarely heard the term pie, and there were pleny of places that made great PIZZA. i am only guessing, you are from NYC? after reading many of dancers posts, it sounded like he came from the same city.

[Vman96]

I owned a bar that had a Broadway Poker aka Joker Poker machine. It had good payout but it was a VLM and was set to pay 65% of what went into it.Myself and its owner split the rest. Had it for three years and never put a dime into it. Took tens of thousands out of it, though. loved watching people with their systems. No joker for eight hands so they triple their bet. Another guy told me if you got a pair of twos, always double up because four twos comes in more often than any other foursome.

That's got to be a frustrating game as hell if it only paid 65% back. Even if a VP game is set like most slots today at 85%, it would suck pretty bad, and you should start noticing you're losing a lot. Did you have any players complain it was rigged? Because in my opinion those types of VP games should be banned everywhere.

[billryan]

I used to play BJ in Atlantic City weekly. The games were bad, I'd rarely win and after travel and meals, I reckoned each trip cost me $100 to $150.
In 2001, I went to Vegas for a trade show and saw the Strip
BJ, which wasn't that much better. My last day, I went to the El Cortez and discovered Double Deck BJ.
Instead of weekly trips to AC, I put $100 a week away and started going to Vegas every four months for a long weekend. I began getting free rooms from the EC, discovered the American Casino Guide and back then, a $20 casino player subscription got you a fun book worth triple that.
Found some chat rooms that turned me on to low roller games. Who knew the best $5 BJ game in Vegas was in a truck stop on Blue Diamond.
My point is I could have kept playing the crappy games near me and lose money but enjoy myself or forego weekly trips and go every few months.
If you didn't play any VP, starting now, and banked your trip cost and expected losses, would it really be several years before you could eat better pizza?
Last year, I spent forty something days in Nevada over three trips. Next month I am retiring there.

[billryan]

[QUOTE=billryan]
I owned a bar that had a Broadway Poker aka Joker Poker machine. It had good payout but it was a VLM and was set to pay 65% of what went into it.Myself and its owner split the rest. Had it for three years and never put a dime into it. Took tens of thousands out of it, though. loved watching people with their systems. No joker for eight hands so they triple their bet. Another guy told me if you got a pair of twos, always double up because four twos comes in more often than any other foursome.

That's got to be a frustrating game as hell if it only paid 65% back. Even if a VP game is set like most slots today at 85%, it would suck pretty bad, and you should start noticing you're losing a lot. Did you have any players complain it was rigged? Because in my opinion those types of VP games should be banned everywhere.[/QUOTE]

Our players loved the machine.Believe it or not,losing so much, made the rare big hits more enjoyable.I remember a guy being dealt four Kings at max coins,ten dollars. He doubled up so ended up winning $1000. He tipped the bartender, bought drinks for a lot of people and created such a buzz that our take that week was better than average. No one knew the right plays. Almost everyone held kickers,lots of times four guys would each throw in $25 and take turns playing. They'd rarely cash out.

[ko king]

if you live in a place with a large population, you can normally find a variety of pizzerias, get the kind you like and with a little effort, find someone who has it on sale. but, if you live in a one stop light town, there may be only one pizza place. you either pay the price they ask, travel some distance to get a better deal (losing the savings with travel expense) or go without it.   isn't this like VP for many folks? some live in a place with limited, sometimes just one casino. they could travel and the expenses might eat up any potential advantage , play what they can get or they just do not play. if you live in a place with a vast selection, it is easier to find games that are more competitive, and with an effort find someone who has VP 'on sale'. 


Notes, we have 14 casinos in what I consider my area, none of them compete to be the best. It's more of a race to the bottom or just not be considered the worst.

[notes1]

i think billryan's post is logical and makes sense for him and some others. but, there are others who may not have 40+ days to take off and go gambling, some may want to play in shorter-more frequent time periods, some may have family/work committments, etc.  the idea that those who are trying to stretch their gambling dollars, to lengthen their entertainment time period in the casino, do not understand the math is foolish. they know the math very well, everytime they look at their wallet after a gambling session. no one here is playing 65% games, most are playing 96% and higher. the facts are that for the majority of players, including those who travel to more competitive casinos, the cost of gambling has risen. paytables are lower, comps are reduced, you get less bang for your buck.  so, while it may appear that some are disregarding the math, they are not. we are just trying to find a way to play the game we enjoy, within the current casino enviroment.  unfortunately, we are paying the same price for a pizza as we did 7 years ago, but we are getting a smaller pie.