Strange experience at WOV

[billryan]

I used to post on occasion on the wizard of odds. Not sure if I used billryan or shadroch. I might have joined when wizard of Vegas when it spun off, I can't say for certain. 2009/2010 is when I cut down on my blackjack after stupidly getting backed off twice in one trip.
What I most certainly did not do is sign up under those other names. Henry T was one of my mentors and Id never disrespect him.Until this month, I lived in New York, and use the same email since 2002..
I used to post quite a bit on Ken Smith's BJ forum under the name shadroch. After that, I was on Norm Watterburg(sp) forum for a short period before the level of stupidity caused him to get rid of the free site.
Folks like zengrifter, lv bear, nate tilton and bojack should remember me.
As I said, I don't want to be somewhere I'm not wanted but I would like to clear up what ,to me, is an obvious misunderstanding.

If you could pass this to him, I'd appreciate it.

[billryan]

educate me some more. you speak with such certainty that if something is expected to happen, it will actually occur. even dancer refuses to guarantee that someone will win on a positive machine.

I am certain there are plenty of unemployed folks in Nevada, who would welcome earning $50/hour, are you willing to guarantee that will happen, if they play with a 1% advantage?

it takes place in a casino, it is gambling, what don't you get?

I'd have to look up the exact numbers, but the mathematical odds of a $100 player with a one percent edge being behind after 10,000 hands are very small and continue to decrease every hand. VP is different because of the huge dependency on the Royal Flush, but long term results will bear similar results.
Of course, a $100 dollar BJ player should have minimum $100 grand BR to withstand the swings. If an unemployed person has the BR and takes the months needed to begin to master it, BJ is an option. Few have the discipline and fewer have the bank roll
I had a friend who seemed to have both, but got discouraged after losing almost twenty grand over three trips and now thinks card counting is a joke and a fraud.

When a man like Bob Dancer is playing 100 play deuce wild for $125 a hand, do you think he thinks he's gambling?

[DaBurglar]

[QUOTE=notes1] educate me some more. you speak with such certainty that if something is expected to happen, it will actually occur. even dancer refuses to guarantee that someone will win on a positive machine.

I am certain there are plenty of unemployed folks in Nevada, who would welcome earning $50/hour, are you willing to guarantee that will happen, if they play with a 1% advantage?

it takes place in a casino, it is gambling, what don't you get?

I'd have to look up the exact numbers, but the mathematical odds of a $100 player with a one percent edge being behind after 10,000 hands are very small and continue to decrease every hand. VP is different because of the huge dependency on the Royal Flush, but long term results will bear similar results.
Of course, a $100 dollar BJ player should have minimum $100 grand BR to withstand the swings. If an unemployed person has the BR and takes the months needed to begin to master it, BJ is an option. Few have the discipline and fewer have the bank roll
I had a friend who seemed to have both, but got discouraged after losing almost twenty grand over three trips and now thinks card counting is a joke and a fraud.

When a man like Bob Dancer is playing 100 play deuce wild for $125 a hand, do you think he thinks he's gambling?[/QUOTE]I do not want to steal notes1's thunder because he is doing a very effective job getting the relevant points across regarding the uncertainty inherent in gambling even with so-called ADVATNAGE games......But let me first ask you this........WHAT's stopping YOU from becoming the next Bob Dancer??!?!?You actually just high-lighted, in your posts above, the very reason why it is nearly impossible for most people to replicate the VERY VERY few true cases of professional gamblers who are long term consistent winners.You described how a LARGE bankroll that is COMPLETELY and TOTALLY devoted to gambling is NEEDED (no exceptions, and no dipping into the BR for anything other than gambling!)   This alone disqualifies 95% of people.....But, assuming the bankroll is secured (and I think your example of $100k for a Blackjack player who ONLY plays a +101% game is still low), the player has to go through the actual learning curve while simultaneously avoiding ALL possible negative events (like ill health, accidents, crime etc.)   How likely is it that someone will make it through this "learning curve" with their minimal 100k bankroll intact?    How long is the actual learning curve and all the dangers inherent in BECOMING a bonafide experienced Advantage player Pro Gambler???see where this is going???While it is true, there are a few pro gamblers out there who manage to make a living playing ONLY the games (and situations) where they truly have an advantage.     But guess what?    What they do (and BOB Dancer has affirmed this) is REAL HARD WORK.....and while they may appear to be enjoying themselves and doing "well", remember it is typical for people to always portray things in a MORE positive light than is reality (although some people go the other way and ALWAYS portray things far worse than they are.....myself, I adhere to the principle things are rarely as GOOD or as BAD as people make them out to be.)     Spending almost all your time and life in and around casinos is NOT a healthy lifestyle, even for people who try to take care of themselves by eating right and exercising (which alas, most gamblers absolutely DO NOT DO.)    Excessive, non-stop (or at least VERY FREQUENT) Gambling is exhausting and has negative impact on a person's long term state of mind and mental health, especially gambling that is not for "fun".    Research it,or ask a professional psychiatric counselor or psychiatrist......Billyryan, I perceive you are actually intelligent and not nearly as hard a case as you try and portray yourself here......You are better off keeping your gambling at a limited, amateur level where you do your utmost to squeeze out all the short term advantage (or minimize the disadvantage) from your sporadic trips to the casino.     Keep it fun......edited to add:  Bob Dancer is a truly unique and exceptional example/person.   While he does not emphasize it or talk about it much, he makes money via other means besides gambling.   In order to continue to do THAT, he MUST maintain a good 'story', otherwise his statue & credibility diminishes and so does hos income.    Furthermore, he is ALLOWED to do what he does by the Nevada casinos.....remember that!   All pro gamblers operate and continue to operate at the pleasure of the casinos in which they play.......casinos TOLERATE them so long as they perceive that the "PRO" is actually bringing in MORE (by means of the false encouragement the "pro" offers all other non-pro gamblers) than the Pro is taking out.    Whether they want to admit that or not, it is true.....but in the case of BLACKJACK, once a player achieves a certain level of success and notoriety, it is game over.     Videopoker is a  more tolerant endeavor.....

[notes1]

again, you speak with such certainty about the expected actually happening, but are wise enough not to actually guarantee it. it is gambling.

I have little doubt that skilled/disciplined players years ago might make a living off the weaknesses of some casino games/offers/comps. but, those days are largely gone. the AC blackjack player who won so much, had special considerations that most would never get.

as far as those who claim to make a healthy living off of casino games, my feelings are well known. maybe they made/invested enough in the good times to survive now, maybe they inherited money, maybe many are lying and maybe some are just addicted to the action.

I do find it interesting that AP's talk about keeping it a secret, when they find an advantage. makes sense. why then would the vegas expert tell the world where he won a $100k on a VP game? could it be he was compensated in some way by that very casino, in a effort to draw others? how many of those who claim to be successful at casino games, actually have outside incomes that support their habit?     

[billryan]

Although it should be obvious to most, I guess it needs be said that one doesn't start out being a $100 a hand player.
The path to being an Advantage Player is long and hard.
In my case, I played $3 and $5 dollar BJ until my $3,000 bankroll doubled, and then $5-$10 until it had doubled again. That was hundreds of hours spent making sub minimum wage, not to count about as many hours playing on computers and reading about forty different books. All at a time when my regular job was paying much much more.
The vast majority of people don't have the discipline to do this, most of the ones with the discipline lack the bankroll and of those who have both, some start out on the wrong side of the bell curve and don't continue.
One of my friends lost something like 22 max bets in a row.
Had I experienced something like that early on, my faith might have been as shattered as his.
In any event, one of the key ingredients is belief in yourself and the system. Perhaps it's the Tinkerbell effect, but those who don't believe they will succeed, rarely do.

[Rebus]

VPFree often has more good VP info/discussions, but it's god awful format that Yahoo! Groups uses tilts me so much that I rarely read/post there.I don't particularly like the Yahoo Groups format either, but since I switched my membership to getting individual emails, I don't ever have to go to the Yahoo Groups site. The posts come to my inbox and I can filter them to their own folder and read them whenever I like.

[FAA]

Starting out on the wrong side if the bell curve has torpedoed many a visit, especially those where a craps table was involved. I'm returning to pure VP and will try to bring enough bank to hit dollar machines.

[olds442jetaway]

I still remember it like yesterday. Shortly after Foxwoods opened and added table games in 1992, I became a weekend Blackjack player and held my own the first few weeks. The last time I ever played the game is when the dealer pulled Blackjack 11 out of 13 deals.

[Vman96]

[QUOTE=Vman96]VPFree often has more good VP info/discussions, but it's god awful format that Yahoo! Groups uses tilts me so much that I rarely read/post there.I don't particularly like the Yahoo Groups format either, but since I switched my membership to getting individual emails, I don't ever have to go to the Yahoo Groups site. The posts come to my inbox and I can filter them to their own folder and read them whenever I like. [/QUOTE]

Oh I do that too, and occasionally read them if the topic catches my eye, but my email is also a terrible mess of my own design. Ack!

[Vman96]

As I said, I don't want to be somewhere I'm not wanted but I would like to clear up what ,to me, is an obvious misunderstanding.

If you could pass this to him, I'd appreciate it.


I passed it along to one of the mods, he said he would unlock your account late tonight. If it doesn't happen by Monday, let me know here.