Thoughts For Beginners

[FloridaPhil]

Let's talk real not fantasy games.  Tomorrow I will go to the Tampa Hard Rock like I do every week.   I will take $500 with me.  I will play single coin dollar 98.9% deuces wild to increase in my odds over max coin quarters.  Every time I win 4 coins on one hand I will go to max coins on the next hand.  The excitement level is increased substantially.  Keep in mind that the strategy for single coin is different than max coins.   I will play max coins until I lose a hand at which time I will return to single coin dollars. Every time the counter reaches $50 I will cash out and immediately put the ticket in my wallet.  I will leave the casino when all my money is in white tickets when I cash out totally and go home.  I have been playing this way in Tampa for years.   I come home even at least 3 out of 4 times.  Even if I don't break even, I always come home with at least half my money.   My probability of hitting a quad deuce for $1,000 is good.  I hit one of those about every three months.  I may even hit a royal for $4,000.  I hit one of those last summer.  Yes, I do hit  $200 quad deuces and an occasional $250 royal.  Even if I don't hit anything decent, I cash out at least $500 in white tickets most of the time.  You do not need a royal or even a quad deuce to break even, but it helps.  Anyone can do the same thing.  Compare that with your average max coin dollar player with a $500 daily bankroll who comes home broke most of the time and tell me which is better.A couple of quick notes.  This strategy only works with deuces wild.  I have tried it extensively with Jacks or Better & DDB with poor results. I believe it has something to do with the frequency of 4 coins hands in deuces.   If you find yourself doing well on a particular day, don't afraid to push your max coin play a little longer.  I do not claim this strategy works better than playing positive games with computer perfect strategy.  However, it does work better than flat betting negative games. This is a recreational strategy that is designed to increase the excitement level of single line deuces wild with the goal of limiting daily loses.

[billryan]

Does a single coin pay one fifth of what a five coin Royal does? If it doesn't, you aren't playing 98.9 game, are you?
You are playing a game that is closer to 97 %, no?
What do you different when playing single coin?

[FloridaPhil]

The max coin quarter deuces wild odds at the Tampa casino are 97.58%.  Taking into account the loss of the royal bonus, the single coin dollar odds are 97.69%.  When you switch to max coin dollars (about 8-10% of the time) you are playing at 98.9%.  This makes the effective odds much better with my strategy than playing max coin quarters.  In addition, each time you switch to max coin dollars and hit a straight flush you go home with $45, $75 for a 5 of a kind, $125 for a wild royal and $1,000 for a max coin quad deuce which is the same payout as a max coin quarter royal flush.  A quad deuce is 9 times more frequent than a royal flush (1/5000 vs. 1/45000) making a $1,000 jackpot 9 times more possible when you switch to max coin dollars.  When you hit a max coin royal flush (three so far in three years) all bets are off and your bankroll grows by $4K.The single coin deuces wild strategy differs mostly in the 2 card royal flush plays. I use Dancer's VPW software to train for both single and max coins.  I developed my strategy using his software also.  This software is the only software I have found that lets you simulate actual casino play by switching denomination.Winning with this strategy does not rely solely on hitting rare hands.  It relies mostly on the frequency of hitting good hands directly after a 4 coin win.  This is why the common deuces wild streaks help this strategy to work.  As a 4 coin win happens frequently in deuces, max coin wild royals are common which pay 50% of the max coin quarter quad deuce. It doesn't take many of these to go home a winner.I gauge my success by my bankroll.  I keep all my video poker money in a separate account.  If my account goes up, I know I'm winning.  If it goes down, I'm losing.  When flat betting max coins, my balance runs in direct proportion to number of royals I hit.  I can commonly go for months of losing before I hit one.  Playing with the strategy I outlined here, my bankroll balance stays fairly consistent until I hit a lucky max coin royal when it makes a big jump and stays there.  I find this strategy easier on my wallet, more exciting to play and it keeps me out of the high limit room where most of my damage used to come from. 

[ukaserex]

I don't know how I suffered through it, but I read all 5 pages of this ...debate.
I live in Mobile, Al. Clearly, I can't go to Vegas every weekend. Heck, I don't even go to Biloxi every weekend.

One thing about Dancer and his book that I think many of us are likely to miss. Dancer relied on certain promotions to make the gaming worth his time.

If I go to the IP and play 6/9 JoB with quarters, fifty cents, $1 or $2, those are the best odds I'm going to find for that game. I don't do deuces, although I should, but I don't, as I haven't been able to pass the software test yet. Someday. It's just not as intuitive for me like JoB. Something about wild cards that don't mix with my way of thinking, I guess.

If I really want to live dangerously, I can play $5 6/9 JoB at the Hard Rock.

At IP, as I play, I earn free play. Free play in the form of "Free slot play" and free play from points earned while playing. The former comes from IP's marketing department, the latter is built into the player's card system. Put in so many dollars, get a certain number of points - and a certain number of points can be exchanged for a certain number of dollars.

The more you risk, the better the marketers treat you -- months later.
So, in order for those on the Gulf Coast to take advantage of any advantage play, we've got to get this "strike it rich, then leave and never return" idea out of our heads. Unless you just hit a string of royals and decide to never return. The more you win, the harder it is to follow through with that. (in my experience, anyway)

My strategy for dealing with lousy paytables and/or lousy promotions is to limit my losses to a set amount. It used to be $400, now it's $500.

I don't have a "bankroll". When I get a bonus at work - it goes into my IRA or my Roth IRA, depending on how much my tax bill looks like it will be. For 2015 taxes, it all went to the traditional due to a tax bill from a $11535 progressive on a $2 vp at the IP. Still had to pay in, but not as much.
So, I scrimp and save and try to have disposable income. Every dollar has a destination. Some are headed to the casino. If they stay with me, they go back in the bank.

While I'm in Biloxi, I check my free play. I play that first. Who knows, I hit a royal on free play - I'm leaving. I don't care if it's only been 5 minutes.

I hit 4 aces on free play once. I left as soon as I played it all. Kills me that it expires the next week. I wish they'd let it accrue! (Crazy talk, I know)

So, once I play free play, I slide 40 bucks into a $1 JoB. I play it until it's 60 or it's gone. Rinse and repeat, taking the +20 and putting it in my pocket. Some times, I have a lot more than I came with. Sometimes, I feel like I wasted a trip because I didn't lose much or didn't win much. I mean, $20-40 bucks - that's hardly anything to get excited about. And, yeah, of course, some times I feel like I've been robbed. The money is mostly gone and it bugs me. I could've just stayed home.

But - going to the cafe and getting a free bowl of gumbo -- that's as good or better than any gumbo I had in Louisiana growing up, or that I could make myself - that's darn near priceless.

The option to get a free room for a night or two - well, I like having the option, but for me, it's hard to give that value. My own bed is less than an hour away. So is my kitchen, for that matter.

But - I digress a bit. Those meals and those rooms - Dancer counted those types of perks as his payoff. Remember, he was chasing the gal that he eventually married - and doing it far more cheaply than most of us (if you only look at the cash laid out for dinner, as opposed to the cash sunk into the VP machines)

Just my .02 - yours for free.

[FloridaPhil]

Thanks for your input.  Players that play negative games like us have all kinds of strategies based on what we enjoy most.  If you like buffets, you may play 8 hours of 7/6 Jacks just to eat all the free shrimp you want for an hour at the Beau Rivage.   Others may only play when they get free golf or an oceanfront room, who knows?   I want to play more video poker than most.   I love the game and if I could I would play 24/7.  We have a lovely home overlooking a lake in Central Florida and we're sure not moving to the desert just to play positive video poker games.  My biggest beef with Bob Dancer is that he never offers any advice to players like you and me.  He just says "Play like I do or don't play at all!"  This leaves 99% of the players in the US up to their own devices.   If I want to learn how to play in Vegas, I'll reread my pile of Dancer books or tune in to his radio show.  This forum is dull.  Someone posts a free thought and the trolls start posting formulas to shoot him down.  Let's hear from regular players for a change.  We want to hear how you like to play.  If it's not mathematically correct, who cares as long it makes you happy.  I don't believe we're here to train or correct anyone.  We're here to talk about the enjoyment of playing video poker whatever that means to you.

[billryan]

9-6 JOB is not a bad game. 7-5JOB is a horrible game.
Encouraging people to play 7-5JOB is wrong. Newcomers come here looking for good advice, far too often they end getting terrible stuff instead.

[billryan]

Phil,
The game you describe playing at the Hard Rock isn't listed at VP Free. Perhaps you might help your fellow players and update the conditions there.

[ukaserex]

I love the game and if I could I would play 24/7. 


This may be a crazy question - but does your forearm or elbow, or wrist start to hurt after an hour or so?

I've noticed that at the upright machines (as opposed to the ones where the screen is facing upwards at an angle) after an hour or so, parts of my arm just scream at me to find a more comfortable machine. I'd play at the bar - but the paytables there are generally worse, and those bartenders 1) expect a tip anytime you win - but never pitch in when you lose 2) Continuously try to engage in small talk when I'm trying to focus on playing. I give up on the bar. The only bartender I've found that I enjoy playing around is at The Palace. That Keri is just as pretty and nice as she can be - without making me confuse kindness with interest. But..that's a completely different topic. Sorry - I digressed.

[Tedlark]

When that happens I usually just switch arms and use more lotion.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=billryan]Encouraging people to play 7-5JOB is wrong. Newcomers come here looking for good advice, far too often they end getting terrible stuff instead.[/quote]I'm not encouraging anyone to play any game or use any strategy.  I'm discussing how I play and my reasons for playing the way I do.  I think I've been pretty clear about that.  You are assuming forum members want our advice.  If they want answers they will ask specific questions.  People will always play the way they want.  All I am doing is saying I'm OK with whatever they want to do with their own money.[quote=ukaaserex]This may be a crazy question - but does your forearm or elbow, or wrist start to hurt after an hour or so? [/quote]Absolutely.  I'll be 70 years old next month. I'm in good health but my joints aren't what they used to be. When we play in Hollywood, all the good deuces games are the standup type. If I hang onto the side of the machine with my right hand, I have to be careful not to stress my fingers or wrist.  If I feel a problem coming on, I hit all the buttons with my left hand and rest my right.  This has the added benefit of slowing me down, which I find beneficial.  Taking frequent breaks also helps. Tampa is a huge casino with machines all over the property.  I change machines often there just to get some exercise and rest my arms.  I have more problems dealing with cigar smokers than hand cramps.  I find most of them are awful human beings that don't care about anyone but themselves. Just returned from my day at the Tampa Hard Rock.   Played from 10 AM until 2:00 PM.  No quad deuce this time.  Did cash out a number of small tickets and one with a max coin 5 of a kind for $92.00.  Just barely broke even this time, but I played free again.  I call that a win.