Bankroll Issues

[FloridaPhil]

No problem.  I go to Tampa most every week.  Give me some notice and we'll see if we can hook up.

[alpax]

Comps only have value if you can use them.  A few years back I was lucky enough to find a young man in the Hard Rock Player's Club that took the time to explain their comp system in detail. I discovered to my amazement that I was an Elite level player and that I could get free rooms in Hollywood most any time I wanted.  Also, their mailer system is very complex.  He wrote down all the "key words" to look for in the mailers, explaining what each mailer was offering.  Since then, I have moved to max coin play (in Hollywood) and have become more aware of comps. We also started playing monthly at the Hollywood facility in addition to my weekly trips to Tampa.  We just booked our spring trip to Blackhawk Colorado.  Talking to the Ameristar player's representative, we were able to get a big discount on a week of room charges.  Cherokee NC gives us free rooms also.  Keep in mind that my wife and I are mostly quarter players, but we do play a lot of hands between us.  Before all this, the only thing I ever got from comps was some nice sunglasses and a T shirt.Last year when we played at South Point in Vegas we were told they were the only casino in Vegas that will convert comps to money.  From Bob Dancer I learned that some venues will kick back loses to big time players.  This changes the game significantly.  However, it does not affect an average hobby player like me.  If a casino offers comps that have value to me personally, I will do what I can to earn them.  If not, I don't see the point of risking a pile of my money just to get a free "something" I can't use or buy cheaper myself.



Agreed that comps only have value if it is of value to the player. Not all comps have to be in monetary form in order to be valuable. You have scratched the surface of the comp system of the Hard Rock places which is good, having this knowledge long time ago would have benefited you greatly.

A good amount of casinos give out annual cruise trips (the player pays the fees) and certain players play to the extent where their expected loss is far less than the actual cost of the cruise if they pay for it right out of their pocket. But for people that do not like cruising (I do know many), it has zero value.

The casinos I frequent give away random household gifts for a little amount of play, I try to plan out visits to receive the items I can actually use. Otherwise I play for free dinner, only tips coming out of pockets. I am not retired, but the casinos invite certain players to participate in slot tournaments held on a weekday afternoon (a time that is the most inconvenient to many). That is as good as a drawing because everyone has equal chance of winning, but you have to play to get the invite.

As for the SouthPoint, it is not the only place that offers cashback for play. The Red Rock (and the Stations properties) do it and the M Resort (nearby the SouthPoint the best place for Airport Deuces in my opinion).

In my post, I made it quite clear that my relative said she did not know of any regular players who were ahead lifetime on VP alone, with no comps, promos or other bennies added in. Of course there are many regulars who are ahead when they factor in the extras. If you are pounding away at the machine day after day while deluding yourself that YOU have the special magical power to beat the mathematical odds over long-term play, then good luck to you, sir.

At least in my part, I wanted to bring up that there existed video poker games in the 1990s that were scheduled to pay out over 100% (10/7 Double Bonus with 80 for 1 straight flush and Full Pay Deuces Wild at $1 denomination) without any comps or benefits attached. Wanted to say people who played those games near perfect during that era can easily be lifetime winners.

Who cares if they do it on purpose or not. They do it, and some people exploit it. I know two long time card counters who switched over to VP. and get thousands of dollars in free play every month. If you play $50,000 of your own money, and $2,000 of free play and get near the 99% percent payout,are able to do that at several casinos, and then throw in player club rewards, you are not eaking out a small profit.
The ability to exploit VP dwarves the ability to do so in BJ, although my local casino sent out $10 match plays you can use once a day.
What is hurting them is casino consolidation. The Cannery's and Palms being brought into larger casino groups lessens the number of mailings you get.

The top of the line blackjack card counters earn more than the top of the line VP players by a mile, provided they have the ability to prevent themselves from being flagged by the casino. You have to submit identification on all W2G wins in VP, which the BJ players are very hesitant to do.

There is not that kind of money in VP these days. Caesars Entertainment used to give such generous comps before their bankruptcy declaration.

[ukaserex]

Maybe I can learn something from some of you about comps.

Here, in the Gulf Coast area, it seems the amount of play to get comps is a bit mysterious. Last year, I'd deliberately tossed some coin into slot machines just to see how many points each dollar would earn, and what those comp points would translate into dollars.

In my opinion, it was really tough to get a dollar to dollar comparison because a buffet at The Palace Casino Resort is (in my opinion) much better than the buffet at Harrah's. (Don't ask me about their crunchy pancakes!)
When it comes down to it though, for me - eating free and sleeping free are nice and all - but what I really want is entertainment. Vegas has it - but the Gulf Coast doesn't. I can count on one hand the shows I'd like to see that came through in 2016. And, unless you're dropping serious bank at all of the casinos that have entertainment - IP, Beau Rivage,etc - you may not have the comps at that place to see the show.

I wonder if they'll ever come up with a casino business model that won't give comps, won't give free play - just better odds? I wonder if that model could make it.

Oh - at Hard Rock - I had a really crappy run one day. Dropped 1500 bucks in about 10 minutes in the high roller room.

Comps earned: About $2.40 that could only be used on a slot. No VP with free play. I've yet to earn enough for free food there. So, I stopped going. I like the atmosphere, but their players club promotions are very weak, at least from where I sit.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ukaserex]Here, in the Gulf Coast area, it seems the amount of play to get comps is a bit mysterious.[/quote]The best way to learn about comps is to visit your Player's Club.  Comps are sometimes mysterious when they don't have to be.  Most desk clerks at a Player's Club are useless, so it might take you a few tries before you find one that is willing to sit down and explain their system in detail.  If you get lucky you will learn things that most players don't take advantage of.  Also, it never hurts to ask for something.  You may be surprised when they give it to you.[quote=ukaserex]I wonder if they'll ever come up with a casino business model that won't give comps, won't give free play - just better odds?[/quote]The only place I have seen this is at the Mohegan Sun Casino in CT.  They have special video poker machines with labels that clearly state they do not earn points.  The odds are better on those machines.  I would love it if all casinos would adopt this policy.  We play all over the East and comp policies vary widely.  Frankly, the Gulf Coast is not the best place to play video poker.   There are a few exceptions, but they're few and far between.  We quit gambling there a few years ago.   The best comp policy we have seen so far is here in Florida.  The Florida Hard Rocks went to a system with generous comps that expire quickly which keeps you coming back.  Free rooms are easy to get during the week and they have frequent bonus free play days.  We have never asked for show tickets, so I can't comment on that.

[ukaserex]

So, yesterday (the 11th of January) I had a couple of decent quads on the monthly contest. When I woke up this morning, I was ranked 75.

Mind you, that was at 2am, due to insomnia. At the conclusion of my 500 hands, I was ranked at #12. So close! Now, I'm #40.

This is the second time I've been so close to the top 10...

[Vman96]

I wonder if they'll ever come up with a casino business model that won't give comps, won't give free play - just better odds? I wonder if that model could make it.



If I ran a casino, no way I would do that. There are too many carrot danglers out there. They'll balk at paying for a $100 hotel room, but gladly run $10K through a 97% VP machine as long as their room is "free". For the casino, that's worth $100 more than offering 99% VP for the same coin-in and charging $100 outright for the room. And likely the average patron will think they got a better deal at the place that gave them the "free room", even though we expect them to lose more money on average.

Also when you charge outright, the state gets their cut as well from sales tax.

[parugie]

Keeping a bankroll sounds like a good idea!  I think that's what I will start doing for the new year.  Have you ever depleted your bankroll?  You said you started with $2,000; how much did you play per day/trip to the casino?  Thanks.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=parugie]Keeping a bankroll sounds like a good idea!  I think that's what I will
start doing for the new year.  Have you ever depleted your bankroll? 
You said you started with $2,000; how much did you play per day/trip to
the casino?[/quote]First let me state the obvious.  In order to play video poker effectively, you need to have disposable income.  Don't use any money for gambling that you can not afford to lose.  If a loss of $2,000 is going to cause your family pain, don't even think about going there.My goal when playing VP is not to make money, although often I do.  Many members of this forum login thinking they are going to gain some secret knowledge that will turn them into long term winners. Others just like playing with numbers.  My goal is to play as much video poker as I can for the least amount of money.  This is widely misunderstood even though I have repeated it over and over again.Keeping a separate VP bankroll has transformed our play from an occasional pastime to a serious hobby.   We play negative games so we expect there will be a cost to play.  On occasion we are surprised to add a big win into the pot.  Keep in mind that we are both adding outside money into our VP bankrolls.  A few hundred here, a small bonus check there, nothing serious just steady.   Don't expect to grow your bankroll from VP winnings alone, although you may be surprised along the way.  Once you get into this you will find you have saved quite a bit of money.  If you decide to "raid" your VP bankroll the buy a car for instance, you could. In the beginning I would take $250 to the casino.   If I played low variance games with max coin quarters and stayed conservative, I found this allowed me to play for at least 2 hours.  If I played a lot of single coin quarters, I could play all day.  I don't recommend this for beginners as the pain of hitting a $62.50 royal is too depressing.  I've hit so many royals that they don't affect me anymore, so I play single coin if there is an advantage to me.I am very conservative with my play.  I play only low variance games and set low cash out limits.  It is important to do this when playing negative games or you will always play until all your money is gone or you hit a royal which rarely happens. The biggest enemy of a recreational VP player is not having a preset time or condition to leave the casino and/or not sticking to it.To answer your question.  We did occasionally get close to running out of money with a $2,000 bankroll.  An adequate quarter VP bankroll is about $5,000.  $2,000 is a good start, so don't let that discourage you.  You must stay conservative.  Stay out of the high limit room.  Stop playing when you are tired of impaired. You can always play another day.   I am semi-retired.  I still hold consulting positions in a number of companies, but I could play every day if I wanted.  Playing one day each week helps me to leave the casino when I should because I know I'll be back.Your situation may be different.  Obviously if you are playing VP on a regular basis you can afford to.  It's doesn't have to be costly.  What you need is a plan and the will to enact it.