How does RNG work in 3/5/10 play?

[luigi1]

ohhh...I didn't know how to do that. I figured it out..thanks EDC

[EDC1977]

ohhh...I didn't know how to do that. I figured it out..thanks EDC Real simple since even I figured it out. Click quote and post your reply next to the  "[quote]" dig?

[spxChrome]

Computers are deterministic machines, and as such, they cannot produce truly random numbers. For this reason one often refers to Pseudo Random Number Generators (PRNG). Pseudo implies that a PRNG does not produce truly random numbers, but numbers that are random enough for a specific practical use.
 
Thus deterministic machines produce the same output for a given starting condition.
 
Federal Information Processing Standard 186-2 appendix 3.1
 
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[luigi1]

Computers are deterministic machines, and as such, they cannot produce truly random numbers. For this reason one often refers to Pseudo Random Number Generators (PRNG). Pseudo implies that a PRNG does not produce truly random numbers, but numbers that are random enough for a specific practical use.
 
Thus deterministic machines produce the same output for a given starting condition.
 
Federal Information Processing Standard 186-2 appendix 3.1
 
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Now I am really confused. Does that mean a payout is predetermined?
 

[faygo]

The RNG picks numbers fron within the field of numbers programed into it. In the case of a VP machine (Vegas Style) this pick is done from a field of numbers that contains a number that translate to every possible combination from a 52 (53 Joker Poker) card deck.  In effect then, this picking is random. Nothing is determined until you hit the deal buttton for the initial and/or subsequent draw(s).

[shadowman]

That's right. The RNG we often refer to is running through a predetermined set of numbers (thus pRNG is a better description but left out in most descriptions) based on a seed (start point). The RNG cycles through a couple billion numbers and the seed tells the machine where to start in that sequence. New seeds are generated quite often but I have no idea what the criteria might be.
 
However, the machine play itself does not follow this pattern. The RNG runs continuosly. The numbers are discarded as they come up. This skips over lots of numbers while a player waits to press deal or while the player is holding cards before pressing draw. Therefore, two different players sitting down at a machine at the exact same position of the seed will still see different results based on exactly when they hit deal/draw.
 
In reality a player skips over millions of potential hands and draws while they play just a few hands. I did a test of an RNG I downloaded from the intenet. It cycled through a million numbers/second on my 1.6 GHz processor. That's a million different hands in one second. I don't think VP machines are this fast but even 10x slower is still 100K potential hands/second. 
 
That's why a person should never get upset when someone hits a jackpot on a machine they just vacated.
 

[spxChrome]

According to IGT the RNG can have up to over 16 quintillion possibilities.  Not sure how but OK.  And from there once the bet is made the deck is prederemined off the top just like a live hand of poker.  So it stacks the deck and then deals 5 cards.  And then deals your replacements from the top of that same deck.  So say you had Ah, Kh, Jh, 5h, 5d and you keep the 3 to the royal and you get 5c and 5s on the draw then yes had you kept the pair of 5's you would have gotten quads as they were up next in the draw.  It's not a timing issue anyone pushing the deal button would have the same result after the deal.  But don't get this confused with having the predermined draw cards under the intial deal.  But the deck is locked and loaded from the insert of a coin, this also squashes the myth paying out larger hands on a smaller coin bets.

[luigi1]

Thank you both (again). I believe I understand the process. I assume the same process works for a single line game as well. Something astounding I would like to share...I have been dealt a royal 3X! Twice on the same machine, a month apart. Imagine if one could ''see'' inside the machine's innards and know exactly when to press deal!!

[shadowman]

According to IGT the RNG can have up to over 16 quintillion possibilities.  Not sure how but OK.  And from there once the bet is made the deck is prederemined off the top just like a live hand of poker.  So it stacks the deck and then deals 5 cards.  And then deals your replacements from the top of that same deck.  So say you had Ah, Kh, Jh, 5h, 5d and you keep the 3 to the royal and you get 5c and 5s on the draw then yes had you kept the pair of 5's you would have gotten quads as they were up next in the draw.  It's not a timing issue anyone pushing the deal button would have the same result after the deal.  But don't get this confused with having the predermined draw cards under the intial deal.  But the deck is locked and loaded from the insert of a coin, this also squashes the myth paying out larger hands on a smaller coin bets.


 
It sounds like IGT now uses a 64 bit RNG. The one I downloaded was 32 bit and that was the reason for my comment about a couple of billion. However, both numbers are sufficient for complete randomness.
 
As for getting the same cards on the draw if you hold different cards. Your description is wrong. Since the RNG keeps running on current machines(since game kings came out), your timing will almost assuredly be different and the likelihood of getting the same draw is extremely small.
 
BTW, I still play on some older machines where the draw is determined after the initial deal. Just last week I had a pair and two royal cards. Held the pair and saw the other 3 royal cards appear. With the newer machines the same thing is going to happen occasionally (statistically), you just aren't aware of it since your timing causes you to see different draw cards.

[Lucky Larry]

shadowman, spxChrome, et. al..

Thanks for the great input on the RNG. So let me make sure I understand. I'm playing and when I hit "deal" the deck of cards is stacked. From that deck the first 5 cards come up and the discards are replaced with the next top cards from the stack. This process repeats itself the next time I hit deal.

I'm trying to understand a hand earlier this week. Dealt three Aces playing three hands of five play.
Kept the 3 Aces: Hand = A,A,A,?,? don't remember ??.   Didn't take the photo of the deal hand just the draw. Do remember showing my wife who was playing next to me and praying a lot!!!!

Draw:
Hand #1 = 4 Aces; (A,A,A,A,8)
Hand #2 = 4 AWAK (A,A,A,A,4)
Hand # 3 = 4 Aces (A,A,A,10.A)

Do I assume
Deck #1 was stacked A, A, A, ?, ?, A, 8...
Deck #2 was stacked A, A, A, ?, ?, A, 4....
Deck #3 was stacked A, A, A, ?, ?, 10, 4...

And so if I had been playing all five hands versus three would I have hit additional 4 Aces and maybe 4 AWAK? Or 3 Aces and we don't know be cause we don't know the stack!

Thanks,
LL