Casinos Shake Things Up

[OTABILL]

As Gamblers Shun Stingier Slots, Casinos Shake Things Up

[olds442jetaway]

Interesting article. Mohegan Sun already has a couple of virtual Roulette games. I am waiting for virtual craps. If it has the same house edge as the real game and I can trust the software, I am all in on that one. The big question for me will be can I trust the software? I gave up real table craps years ago. Got tired on standing in one place for 15 hours with cigar belching losers, novice dealers, drunks, and more. Then you got the squeeze in on your spot especially when you were on a hot roll. I think some of that was by design by the casinos as well as sending waitresses over to ask you if you want a drink just as you start to shoot on a hot roll or changing the stick for no apparent reason. Anything to slow you down or break the streak one was on.

[DaBurglar]

I found this really surprising, and it actually showed I have been sorely mistaken in some of the assumptions I previously held to and believed with respect LAs VEGAS casinos......read this excerpt from the article referenced in the first post:[EXCERPT]
Casinos across the country, with few exceptions, have been keeping more
of what's wagered on slots, according to research commissioned by the
Association of Gaming Equipment Manufacturers.

But their bottom lines haven't gotten an obvious boost. Revenue earned
from slots has been on the decline for years. That's because gamblers
may be walking away from what they see as a raw deal, among other
reasons, said Marcus Prater, executive director of the industry group.

In Nevada, where the average payback on slot machines is 93.6 percent of
every dollar wagered, machines must offer no less than a 75 percent
average payback to the player. Most vary based on the minimum bets.

Changing the hold — the amount the casino keeps — isn't as easy as
pressing a button. Prater said it requires alerting regulators and
switching out a chip in the machine. [End EXCERPT]I had no idea that the REQUIRED minimum payout for Nevada casinos was so LOW, only 75% !!!!     I honestly thought Nevada was required to have its slot machines set to release a MINIMUM return of 87-90%!!!!       The fact that Nevada Casinos apparently  CHOOSE to give back what the article says ( 93.6%)  is in itself amazing and shows that NEVADA Casinos at least  "Get it"  in terms of what it takes to keep customers coming back, although the tone and theme of this article is to point out that even nowadays, Nevada casinos, along with everyone else, are becoming stingier and stingier as it becomes harder and harder to reap decent profits.    If Nevada casinos are giving back 93.6% currently,  one wonders if it used to be Higher and by how much ( I seem to recall, in early 2002, right after the 9/11 attacks caused a 6-8 month "recession" in Las Vegas due to a huge downturn in Air travel, that I read Vegas casinos were returning 95 to 96% on average....of course, back then I assumed the state mandated return% was close to 90!)This blows my mind, since in AC (as far as I know), the current New Jersey "mandated return" is something like 83.7%!!?!?!?!?     I mean, WOW.....I never would have guessed that, SYSTEMICALLY (i.e. what the system REQUIRES) at least, New Jersey is MORE generous than Vegas......!!!!     But we KNOW Beyond any doubt however, that in REALITY  Vegas (and all NEVADA casinos, Reno, Tahoe, etc etc)  gives its customers & players A LOT MORE money back in actual, real terms  during play!!!

[olds442jetaway]

Add to that mix that Indian casinos that are self regulated and do not have to follow the same 75 percent minimum return. It is very easy to cycle 5k through a machine in a day long session on a quarter machine. If you are playing slots, kiss about 750 bucks goodbye as an average on an 85 percent penny machine. A quadless day playing draw poker which is more common than most think can easily swipe 500 bucks from that 5k cycled through. The quads alone account for nearly 6 percent in the long run of one's total return. Add to that 4 percent for the paytables that many play with some errors thrown in and you get that negative 500 number. I know. I have been there more times than I can count. On top of that, I am not even counting the nearly additional 2 percent long term loss for a long Royalless stretch. That would up the daily loss to 600 bucks from 500.

[Vman96]

Add to that mix that Indian casinos that are self regulated and do not have to follow the same 75 percent minimum return. It is very easy to cycle 5k through a machine in a day long session on a quarter machine. If you are playing slots, kiss about 750 bucks goodbye as an average on an 85 percent penny machine. A quadless day playing draw poker which is more common than most think can easily swipe 500 bucks from that 5k cycled through. The quads alone account for nearly 6 percent in the long run of one's total return. Add to that 4 percent for the paytables that many play with some errors thrown in and you get that negative 500 number. I know. I have been there more times than I can count. On top of that, I am not even counting the nearly additional 2 percent long term loss for a long Royalless stretch. That would up the daily loss to 600 bucks from 500.

They don't have an explicit return rule, but it's really unlikely a machine that returns below 75% exists. If a machine does pay poorly enough, people eventually stop playing it to the point where its profit is negatively affected.

According to UNLV's center of gaming research, Foxwoods and Mohegan hold about 8%, better than Missouri at least. Looks like Foxwoods gives out a lot more in Freeplay relatively.

Foxwoods/Mohegan Slot Data

[olds442jetaway]

I have made close calculations and my free play works out to be at Mohegan Sun .7 of 1 percent. I don't know how that stacks up to other casinos. If I just stuck to 9/6 job with perfect play, I should end up even for the year. Without the Royals however, which is the case in my situation, the loss is quite substantial. I never heard of any casino returning less on slots than low eighties and that would be for the real low denomination machines. Edited to add....I checked the numbers on the vman link and Foxwoods does seem to have a substantial edge over Mohegan on free play. The numbers though show free play redeemed not offered so it is hard to tell the entire story from the published statistics. I came up with free play played by Mohegan to be over .8 of one percent on the handle, so that is pretty much in line with my .7 number. I am sure I get less because I play so many 99 percent machines that pay no points either. At least no points that you can spend. Those machines are just good for status points.

[OTABILL]

Add to that mix that Indian casinos that are self regulated and do not have to follow the same 75 percent minimum return.

I don't know about Connecticut or other states but in Arizona the Tribal-State Gaming Compact requires minimum theoretical paybacks for slots, 80%, VP, 83%, and keno 75%.
Arizona Odds of Winning

[DaBurglar]

in the Arizona website you linked in your post, it concludes by saying  EVERY JACKPOT  MUST be hit at least once every 50 million plays!!!!!     How cynical can you be!?!?!   lol50 million!!?!!??!!?!?!?!?!?    Unless someone like Methusaleh (oldest person on record in the Bible having lived 969 years)  sits down and starts playing, NO human being will ever have the needed lifespan to achieve this benchmark of 50 million plays!

[FAA]

Yikes. Methusaleh with Job's patience couldn't survive that cycle. If you're in Arizona, by all means stay off the rez!

[Vman96]

in the Arizona website you linked in your post, it concludes by saying  EVERY JACKPOT  MUST be hit at least once every 50 million plays!!!!!     How cynical can you be!?!?!   lol50 million!!?!!??!!?!?!?!?!?    Unless someone like Methusaleh (oldest person on record in the Bible having lived 969 years)  sits down and starts playing, NO human being will ever have the needed lifespan to achieve this benchmark of 50 million plays!



People hit Megabucks every now and again (roughly every year or two). It's widely speculated those have about 1 in 50M odds. Some people will be lucky and hit it, and others won't be. That's the way it is with any network slot game. And if you devoted your life to a single game, you actually could get about 50 million spins in. 600 spins per hr for 2000 hrs/year for 41 and 2/3rds years.