Long Term vs. Short Term

[Eduardo]

I don't know what my own limits would be as far as pay tables keeping me from playing. I'm definitely spoiled in that I almost always play in Vegas and have good options available.

I only gamble with a few hundred bucks a year. If the pays were downright awful, I might play a different game... I guess. But in a few hours of play, the difference isn't all that great. Definitely beats playing a slot machine, no matter what the odds.

If I played as much as Phil, the pay tables would have a much more significant impact on my bankroll. I couldn't personally justify that as a hobby. But there are certainly more expensive hobbies out there that never win a thing, so if that's what you choose for enjoyment... I can't fault anyone for it. Phil seems to have reasonable expectations for the game now, so I think he should feel free to lose as much as he likes if he gets the pleasure out of it that he's looking for.

I love the idea of casinos increasing pay tables due to mass protest. But I'm not sure it's realistic, at least if the protest is a silent and sporadic one where people just don't show up. The analysts would probably assume you were dead before they thought you left over a pay table.

[FloridaPhil]

Great comments. My advice would be similar. If someone is only going to the casino a few times a year, odds are meaningless. If you are going to play as I do, you should play VP small to limit your cost to play. If we had nickle VP, I would be a player. I have always wondered if I should take up Black Jack? Are the Black Jack odds better than 97% video poker? Are the comps better?

[Gronbog]

For the recreational player, blackjack basic strategy is easy to learn (much easier than VP strategies) and for the most common rules returns in the neighbourhood of 99.5% as long as you stay away from the games that only pay 6:5 for a blackjack.

The comps for blackjack are definitely not as good as for machine play, especially if they rate you as a knowledgeable player.

[billryan]

Is a 99.5% game better than a 97% game? A $10 BJ player at a full table gets 50-60 hands an hour, so he is churning about $600 an hour. A quarter VP player at 500 hands will do slightly more.
Comps for table minimum players are lacking.

[billryan]

It's easier to convince the casino you are a bigger player on table games as most casinos still depend on pit workers to track them. A skilled comp sucker can easily convince your typical pit critter he is betting much higher.

[FloridaPhil]

How do you earn the best comps on table games? Is it science for trickery? How can they track your player's club points? Is there training software for Black Jack?

[OTABILL]

I indicated my perspective of short term vs long term twice before on the forum , the last one being my post in June 2018 entitled “Musings of a casual recreational VP player.” The link to that post is: https://www.videopoker.com/forum/viewto ... it=musings. In that original post I provided a link to a previous post in April 2017 entitled, “The long term is not Guaranteed”. The link there is: https://www.videopoker.com/forum/viewto ... uaranteed .

Rather than repeat what I previously said, those interested can follow the links above and read those posts.

Regarding this thread, the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs of Eduardos’ comment generally parallel my thoughts. Good job.

For Webman: In going back to my original posts some of the content is garbled and appears corrupted. Not sure why but it wasn’t so originally.

[FAA]

Thanks. I reviewed my own post on your thread. Obviously, I never followed through on my insistence on plus or BE trips, even if it meant a 20 minute session. I've got to cut way back on play.

[billryan]

Comp counting is more art than science. In a nutshell, you bet more when the pitboss is paying attention.
You also slow play by playing less hands. You might get rated as a $25 player even though most of your best are at $10. You play four hours, mostly $10 at 45 hands an hour. You put $1800 in play. You might get a $5 comp to the coffee shop. If the pit rates you at $25 and doesn't notice how many hands you skip, you might get credited for $6000. Being a green chipper isn't worth much on the strip, but works fine most other places in Nevada.
Table players don't earn points the way video poker players do. It's a parallel system, that varies from club to club.
There are any number of free sites to practice basic strategy. It's a matter or memorizing about 50 hands and practice. Just like VP, if you play BJ using basic strategy with bad rules, you have no realistic chance of winning long term.
Marx Rubins Comp City is the bible of comp whoring. Most of the plays he writes about are dead, but it's easy to adapt many of them to modern conditions.

[stevel96a1]

Gronbog is that 99.5 from atlantic city rules 8d h17?? even so id choose 99.5 jacks or better and walk away with a royal 1/5 my sessions oppose to BJ table. and comps are always better with machine vs table