New machines unplayable.

[wildman49]

If you can get your 10 people to each record stats on just 1,000 hands we would probably have something to work with.

Your killing me Ed. You send me 1000 bucks and Tech58 and I will play it in the new bar tops we have. The new Acend bar. The best pay tables in the house. We both will tell you it will be gone in no time flat. We both know how bad these machines can eat bankroll. Like a vacuum.

We are just trying to understand how a deal change from 10 cards to 5 card with shuffle can be so different. Also to let new players heading to the casino to be aware of whats happening.

You don't have to believe since you only play a few times a year. There are changes happening but players only playing a few hands a year probably will not notice much.

[Waiting4RF]

Here are numbers for Atlantic City 100 play QuickQuads machine from last month

Total Deals 631

HighPairs Dealt: 74
TwoPairs Dealt: 27
3OAK Dealt: 10
Straights Dealt: 2
Flush Dealt: 1
Full House Dealt: 3
Quads Dealt: 0 natural quads
0 straight flush dealt
0 royal flush dealt

[albatross]

In JOB it is 7.69 J,Q,K,or A. You can get this information on videopokerinfo.com

[onemoretry]

I tend to believe that most of the players who bemoan their current play result patterns, and state that everything is different now, are experiencing unintentional selective memory and memory loss. We remember the good things, and tend to forget the bad. I've been playing video poker for about 29 years, and, believe me, there are plenty of horror stories to be told of dud streaks back in "the good old days".

[olds442jetaway]

That is always a possibility. It still seems to me that the win cycles are compressed into just a couple of minutes and the losing cycles long

[Eduardo]

I tend to believe that most of the players who bemoan their current play result patterns, and state that everything is different now, are experiencing unintentional selective memory and memory loss. We remember the good things, and tend to forget the bad. I've been playing video poker for about 29 years, and, believe me, there are plenty of horror stories to be told of dud streaks back in "the good old days".

I tend to agree. There are also LEGITIMATE reasons why someone might lose their money more quickly today, such as:
1) You were unusually lucky in your "early years" of video poker, and now you're experiencing the slower side of the game
2) You are playing lower pay tables than you used to
3) You have moved on to more volatile games over time
4) You have changed your strategy over time (no inside straight holds, going for more quads and royals when you might not have before, etc.)

But I also don't want to dismiss it based on that alone. That's why I suggest a practical approach to actually diagnosing whether things have changed. If it's "dud streaks" then that is measurable. I don't see why it's offensive to try to get to the bottom of it.

[wildman49]

This morning 700 hands no quads 9/6 job been the norm on these new machines. Long stretches without quad.

I did chat with a very good player that only plays DDB. Have not seen him much. For him the old to new machines seem the same.

Also talked to 2 keno players both said you don't win on these new ones like you did the old ones. These 2 been around awhile.

All I can say is something is different not sure why or how. Maybe Webman can get someone in the know from IGT to help understand the difference in deal/draw from old to new.

[Webman]

The only RNG change in casinos that I am aware of has been noted here before, which was the change to a "cycling" random number generator (sometime in the 1990's I think?)

I can offer some insight from the perspective of this Website, where games do remain the same and unchanged, unless a bug is discovered. As games go, video poker is pretty straight-forward. We certainly do not make RNG changes and have no reason to. These games are free to play with no incentive for us to "cheat" our players. In fact, we actually want people to enjoy these games, believe it or not.

In spite of those facts, we still hear things all the time that are similar to the nature of this thread. Here are some examples:

This was once the best game on the list. Now it 's just deal deal deal, and no points to speak of. I joined to enjoy playing ,but it has come to a point ,where it's real pain... Ask any one about this. I hear a lot of unhappy people chatting. Please give us a break and loosen up games

If you look at chat, I am not the only one complaining. The games are not fun anymore. Most of us play for fun, not the prizes. The prizes are only icing on the cake.If you loosen up the games, people will have fun again.

The games are TOO TIGHT! Today is just an example. Have played 5 - 100 hand games, and have been dealt 3 oak only 2 or 3 times, and have gotten 4 oak only 3TIMES! That is 3 times in 500 hands! Bad luck? I think NOT! That is what you told me, and I have been playing these games longer than most of you have been alive, so I know better! ( I am 68 yrs. old! )

games are set waaay too tight! hits are few and far between, takes all the fun out of playing.

Could someone put my name in a better position. The deals are awful and the draws are worse........

There are better odds in a Casino than on your site. I have played in many casinos, and have done much better there than here.

I always play this game.... my favorite game, and yet ,can't get scores ,for nothing is dealt to play with . It's hard to play every day hoping that something will come up to get some points . this past week has been very bad and everyday seems harder that the last.If I do get a good hand and make it + then it falls apart and nothing after that.Why is this ?? I have been playing it for a long time . I always am told ,that the way it's always been . Not true. It used to be a fun game

There is little we can do when these complaints come in, other than to explain that yes, the cards are selected at random. No, we didn't change the game to make you start losing. And yes, these things happen in a random game. Often times the result is someone very angry insisting they have played for years and know what "random" feels like. I'm not sure what else to say to that.

Thankfully, we also receive a lot of positive feedback on the games.

That neither proves nor disproves anything anyone has said in this topic. But it does show that these same feelings are also possible in what I know to be a fair game here on the site. There are enough video poker players out there that I think you will always be able to find someone who agrees with you when it comes to having a tough time. People having similar feelings doesn't mean they are correct.

Complaining about bad cards or machines is nothing new to casinos. If you really think it's due to anything but randomness, the burden is probably on you to demonstrate it. Otherwise, don't be surprised when people question your complaint.

[Waiting4RF]

For the 630 dealt hands listed above (not 631), this is how many hands it took to get the next dealt winning hand:
Dealt Winners
0 2 3 10 1 1 4 3 2 19 15 1 7 2 1 9 5 13 3 13 1 4 3 1 2 4 13 2 1 3 27 4 1 6 2 1 7 4 1 13 1 7 4 3 3 1 8 3 4 8 1 6 5 3 4 3 1 3 4 12 8 9 1 23 2 3 2 1 2 4 4 4 2 12 3 1 7 3 1 8 3 2 6 1 9 7 20 13 6 4 14 6 1 2 12 1 7 2 2 3 1 6 5 3 10 10 3 10 3 2 6 3 20 4 3 1 12 another 8 hands at the end with no dealt winner.

The first 0 means a dealt winner on the first hand. A 1 means back to back dealt winners.

Notice the 27 in there. Yes it took 27 hands to get the next dealt winner instead of the average of 5.

[Eduardo]

For the 630 dealt hands listed above (not 631), this is how many hands it took to get the next dealt winning hand:
Dealt Winners
0 2 3 10 1 1 4 3 2 19 15 1 7 2 1 9 5 13 3 13 1 4 3 1 2 4 13 2 1 3 27 4 1 6 2 1 7 4 1 13 1 7 4 3 3 1 8 3 4 8 1 6 5 3 4 3 1 3 4 12 8 9 1 23 2 3 2 1 2 4 4 4 2 12 3 1 7 3 1 8 3 2 6 1 9 7 20 13 6 4 14 6 1 2 12 1 7 2 2 3 1 6 5 3 10 10 3 10 3 2 6 3 20 4 3 1 12 another 8 hands at the end with no dealt winner.

The first 0 means a dealt winner on the first hand. A 1 means back to back dealt winners.

Notice the 27 in there. Yes it took 27 hands to get the next dealt winner instead of the average of 5.

THANK YOU. Some real numbers to look at.

That 27 could feel like a long time! That's a lot more than the average. Of course, we all know averages are averages, not expectations for every single time.

I plugged your numbers into excel. Your average was... 5.3

Call me crazy, but that's pretty close to what you say we should expect?

If the average expectation is exactly 5 (I don't know the true number), then you could expect to go 26 deals without a winner just 0.3% of the time or 3 times in a thousand. Not often, but yes... it happens. You recorded 118 entries here so I'm not exactly shocked by that number.

Also of note, you beat the odds several times there. You had a streak of 9 winners in a row that came earlier than expected, also runs of 6 and 5 of unusually good luck.

It all seems to come out even in the end.