Playing Bad VP Games?

[Carcounter]

One of the reasons I believe the VP machines are not rigged is the continual downgrading of pay schedules. At the Borgata, there are only a few 9/6 JOB machines left and a few years ago, they were plentiful. This is a busy, profitable casino and I see people playing poor paytables all the time. I think the only reason they keep some good paytables is because they know that the people that play them bring their spouses, family members etc. who dump money in the slots.

[Tedlark]

Good point Car; why "rig" a video poker machine when in reality all the casino needs to do is to lower the pay schedule. And some of the machines still have better paytables because they help the casino reach required payback percentages.

[DaBurglar]

You never see these issues on slots.  VP games are being "rigged" in a number of subtle ways that don't trigger inspectors.   Placing the best games in areas where there are a lots of distractions.  Limiting the number of the best games making it hard to get a seat.  Leaving the buttons broken, causing errors or discouraging players from putting up with the aggravation of playing through all kind of maintenance problems.  Limiting the best VP games to machines with uncomfortable or awkward seating positions.  Leaving bad screens or faulty open door switches.  We've seen it all.Complaining about it doesn't help either.  The casino slot managers believe the hype that someone can make a nice living off these games, so they have no interest in helping players beat them.  Have you ever seen a bad button or screen on a 88 Fortunes or Buffalo slot?  No way...


Phil, the things you mention certainly are real issues that we all face, but they actually don't constitute rigging in the sense most people would mean. What these things, like broken buttons and uncomfortable seats, really represent are casinos with lousy management, and cost conscious short sighted stupidity. Such things are not as prominent in Vegas where regulatory vigilance keeps casinos honest as well as stiff competition, but in places like AC you're apt to find many annoying situations because regulatory oversight has been severely scaled back and a lousy attitude prevalent on many levels (employee, management, people)...

I've found complaining sometimes helps, sometimes doesn't...if it doesn't, don't play there.

But like just about any business, you make a leap of faith when you frequent it...we all exercise faith that casinos are in fact abiding by ALL regs & rules, just like you exercise faith that the restaurant you eat lunch at is truly abiding by it's regs and that the cook didn't just spit in your soup. Of course, anything's possible these days....

[DaBurglar]

Someone could try and define exactly at what point and what level "beating" the casino actually occurs....

How much profit? Over what time period? Etc.

It's no mystery though what Bob Dauncer actually does....even a lousy 96% VP game can, with the right promotion and multiplier and giveaways can temporarily be "advantageous"...you get the idea.

[FloridaPhil]

Maybe "rigging" isn't the best choice of words.  Let's just say our casinos don't seem to maintain video poker machines with the same enthusiasm they do with slots.  I have seen enough poor maintenance and machine relocations to believe some casinos are intentionally handicapping VP players.  One bad button here, one there, a bad screen or a touchy game selector all cause errors.  These errors cut into your return just like playing poor games or making bad decisions.   I have been lucky so far.  I can only imagine my depression if I lost a royal or a quad deuce due to poor machine maintenance. I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea about my feelings toward VP experts.  There are many things a player can learn from them.   I admit to spending years honing my VP skills with VPW software.  My eyes aren't as good as they once were, but I can play Bonus Poker for two hours without an error.   I wouldn't have invested my time if I didn't think it would help my results.   If you ask me if I think playing 100% games perfectly can make someone a long term winner, I would tell you if that were true Vegas would be overflowing with winners and it's not.  It takes more than skill to pull that off.  It also takes luck.  Does this mean I think everyone should burn their VP strategy books?  NO.  Using computer strategy is an advantage even to a recreational player, it's just not the slam dunk some people think it is.By this time I think I've read everything that has ever been written about VP.  I have practically every book our resident expert has written.  I also have VP books by people who most members of this forum have never heard of.   Most of these books are dogeared from being read so many times.  All the authors have something to contribute to the VP discussion.  These books all contain indisputable facts.  The authors also make assumptions that I do not personally agree with.  My take on this is to utilize what I can use and leave the rest.  It doesn't do any good for me to spend my time learning to play full pay games or navigate Vegas comp programs when I do not have access to them.  Cash back in my VP world is change from the soft drink machine.  Learning to live with $30,000 gambling losses would be like learning to enjoy having brain surgery performed on me in my garage.  I play VP for entertainment.  Until someone writes a book about that, I will have to make it up as I go along.

[FAA]

Right, rigged is a loaded term for the situation. But there is a remarkable apathy demonstrated towards maintenance on these aging clunkers. High traffic? Uprights? They don't care.