Perfect Example!!

[alpax]

.And Bill, I don't think Doug qualifies as a mini-Phil until he starts calling these drawings "raffles." That's the big clue that he has no idea what he's talking about.



I think what Bill meant was that the OP is now more of a foe to you creating a thread like this, but not to the anti degree to FP or DaB.

I recall couple of years back, the OP was one of your supporters on this forum. I do not know what changed nor do I care what happened to cause a change.

The OP's posts over the past few months that I've read indicate more of an opposing stance. Again I do not care what happened.

I will not post on this thread any further to avoid any conflicts as I do not have any with the OP nor cause any. I am just mentioning my thoughts

[DougJ]

It is a perfect example, not just the one the op envisioned.
Traveling from North Vegas to a remote casino to play below average games.
Look like we have a mini-Phil.
Daddy must be proud.

I don't live in North Vegas, never have, and I don't know anyone personally that does.

Perhaps you have a pied-a-terre there, besides the mini-apartment in Henderson?

[DougJ]

I was at the M when Doug didn't take his picture . . . --- often the gifts are worthless, but not always and what's crap to me might be valuable to you or vice versa. . . . if you get free play, you also get a food voucher once or twice a month. Assuming you're going to use the voucher(s), it might make sense to eat at the same time as the Big Draw. . . . Picking up free play without playing some additional is not viewed favorably by many casinos.Depending on what else is happening, it could easily be that the Big Draw was the highest EV event for that particular night for many players --- . . .



First, regarding the gifts, I completely agree that the gifts are mostly crap, but others don't. This is readily apparent when I pick up a free gift for my donation box, and there are folks who "earned up" for three gifts. That's their prerogative. And, the crap gifts are not unique to M, of course.

Second, I completely agree that coordinating free food vouchers with other promos makes sense.
Spouse and I used our free buffet coupons that Friday night, along with redeeming free play, but had no interest in the Big Draw.

I made the original post here prior to reading the Feb. LVA newsletter where Anthony relates his Lucky Dragon foray. What I learned from his article:
That people don't mind devoting a LOT of free time to standing in a queue, hoping to win in a drawing. Granted, he left the 600+ queue, in hopes of eventually making it in the door later on.
But, it illustrated the point of my original post here, how crowds at M were doing just this. Waiting for 6 and 8 pm for a "chance" to maybe win $25, which I think was the minimum Big Draw payout. (yeah, they "might" win a lot more than that.)

I won't do it, BUT I don't care if others find value in doing it, so I am NOT criticizing Anthony (nor you, if you went to Lucky Dragon) . . . it's your prerogative on how to spend free time.

If I chase a promo, its' going to be for gift cards (like VISA gift cards always on promo at G.N.) And, no, I won't play bad games to earn them.

[BobDancer]

   I do enjoy the M buffet, but they generally send me a comp or two in the mail, and many days it's under $1,000 coin in to get a free one. ICON isn't for me.
I'm currently trying to build up eight 'houses" to hit weekly. Right now, I'm at about 3 1/2-4 hours , four days a week. Unlike many people, I try to keep my FP separate. I play it through once and then bank it. After that, I play from my budget.
It's just a book-keeping entry, but I like to think if the casino is willing to pay me $50, or $100 just for showing up, I might as well have a plan for the money.Just my opinion, but regularly frequenting eight casinos that are not next door to each other requires an excess of "wasteful" driving. Better, again just my opinion, is to concentrate on a lower number of them and use the extra time playing. Your mailers and tier levels will increase and you'll be better off financially.Insofar as keeping free play separate bankroll-wise, that's a personal preference. If it makes sense to play your, say, $50 in free play and cash out the ticket when you're finished and enter that information into a separate column, go for it.My point was not about the accounting. It was, after you collect your free play and cash it out, load up the machine with some of your "other" bankroll and play some. Your free play amounts will increase if you do this --- as will your longevity. Casinos much prefer players who play some when they collect their free play as opposed to those who "hit and run." they will never know that the free play and the other play comes from separate bankrolls. Whether the M is part of your route or not is a matter of no importance at all to me. But if you do play there, even if it's just the $850 or $1,300 coin-in on a positive game required to earn a "free" lunch buffet (depending on the day), it's much better than stiffing them.

[billryan]

   I don't believe in stiffing casinos. With the exception of CET.
I play my FP on VBJ, pocket the cash and then play my game of choice.
I tend to look towards the long ru
As far as wasting gas, I have it down pretty much to a tee. A Boulder Highway run, a Downtown run, ect,ect.
My research shows me that the mailers I get from the eight casinos exceeds what I'd get from playing in only one. It also helps me fill out my dance card each week.

[BobDancer]

the wisdom of folks chasing promos like this. Or, similar ones at SP.
That's AP, folks.
The casinos love it ... truly, the place was packed. Marketing Genius.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Aristotle is credited as the first to coin the "wisdom of the crowd" in his work, Politics. Thanks for the memories. I sometimes get roped into these fiascos myself. The Gladiator Challenge at Caesars AC, typically won by Diamonds and 7S getting called to the lobby like clockwork. Low rollers just have to have blinders on those days. They simply cannot compete. They make the M's promotion actually sounds democratic!

You make several points --- none of them wrong, but there's more to the story.Promotions do bring in people. Some people attend blindly. Some very smart players analyze each promotion and only show up for the ones that benefit them. It's very possible that a well-designed promotion makes financial sense to attend. Just because a promotion ends up making money from all players taken as a whole doesn't mean that that there aren't pockets of players who play the promotion in a particular way that engenders an edge for them.Calling the casinos "marketing geniuses" for bringing in people causes you to miss those occasions when "marketing idiots" devise the promotions. You'll see both out there if you read the rules carefully. People who develop new promotions tend to be creative types --- and not always arithmetically competent. Video poker and most other casino games are applied math, and often mistakes are made. Sometimes promotions are "stacked," where one play of however much counts for three or four different promotions. In casino marketing departments, sometimes the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. You want to frequent casinos where this is true. Extra opportunities abound!Correctly figuring out when a particular casino has made a mistake is part of the difference between an actual AP and a wannabe AP. If you cannot or will not do the math yourself (or have a partner who does it for you), you will likely never rise above the wannabe level. (And the ones who cannot rise to the occasion typically find reasons to sneer at those who can.)Finally you mentioned a Caesars promotion where the amount you played mattered and concluded that low rollers didn't stand a chance. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! You need to pick and choose promotions that are appropriate to your bankroll and level of play and avoid the inappropriate ones. Again, that's part of what APs do rather than just blindly show up.

[FAA]

Thank you for confirming the insanity of hanging around for hours on end as if starring in Waiting for Godot. The heavy hitters walked away with envelopes full of free play every time, as probability statistics would predict. I will be much more discriminating in the future to avoid wasting my time with such appallingly inappropriate promotions.
CET will likely have only one appropriate promotion this year for someone like me. It's currently running. Double TC February Fever. You can really crank up your TCs if you concentrate most of your annual play, and even dining, in this window. How would you rate this one?