casinos and inflation

[FloridaPhil]

But, interestingly, as paytables decreased and games became unplayable, tBut the nutshell of the formula is that by decreasing your paytables to the point where you lose your steady, experienced players, you can in fact overcome the loss and perhaps even increase revenue and profits if you're in the right market.

I agree. Video Poker pay tables are not something most people use to decide if and where to play video poker. If that were the case, the Vegas strip would be empty and Red Rock would need more parking. There is so much more to a casino than full pay machines. The Beau RIvage is one of the nicest hotel resorts on the Gulf Coast. The hotel itself is spectacular, the staff is wonderful and the sea food buffet is the best in the country. They don't need to be generous with their comped rooms and flights, but they are. All they ask of us is that we play max coin quarter games long enough to give them a chance to recoup their investment. Through experience, we have learned what that number is.

When we were there last Christmas, the line for the Christmas Buffet was long, so we ate in their wonderful steak house BR Prime. There were whole families there with wide eyed little children smiling and admiring their amazing Christmas decorations. You won't find many cigar chomping gambling addicts or drunk Jersey Shore types at the Beau Rivage. It's a pretty well heeled crowd. Clearly there must have been someone with an IQ over 80 playing there that week?

Profiting from a trip to a casino not something most intelligent people expect. If it's your job, you don't give a damn about food or atmosphere. You would play video poker is a gas station bathroom if the odds were good enough. If it's not, you go there for relaxation and a good time. If you profit while you are there, all the better.

[FAA]

You post this poster from time to time. It is incredibly vague and a waste of wall space. How many people are actually going to hit the M Rewards desk to learn more? Even though the background is green, to me it is a red light to severely curtail my gambling. It can only backfire on the casino. They're warning you that a machine mugging is imminent! I'd be too afraid to even sit down for more than five minutes.

[FloridaPhil]

You post this poster from time to time. It is incredibly vague and a waste of wall space. How many people are actually going to hit the M Rewards desk to learn more? Even though the background is green, to me it is a red light to severely curtail my gambling. It can only backfire on the casino. They're warning you that a machine mugging is imminent! I'd be too afraid to even sit down for more than five minutes.

I saw this sign a few years ago on the wall at the Beau Rivage Player's Club. I just had to take a photo. I assume they put it there for the benefit of idiots who don't realize a casino is a business. Someone was probably standing in line with a video poker strategy book asking where the positive games are. All the people behind the counter had to do was point to the sign.

A casino will not fly anyone across the country, put them up in their hotel for free, feed them, pour all the free drinks they can drink and give them free play for playing beatable games. If anyone on this forum wants to know why they aren't getting offers, study this sign. There will be a test later.

[onemoretry]

Someone was probably standing in line with a video poker strategy book asking where the positive games are.

Yet another gratuitous statement guaranteed (and possibly intended) to annoy people!

[notes1]

FP, it doesn't matter what the topic of any thread is, you just go on your rant/lecture/sermon/preaching, no matter the topic. as one who has criticized the casinos for not giving you as much (paytables/comps/etc), as they used to, here is a thread, that at least partly offers a legitimate reason why many may be expecting too much.

are candy bars the same price for the same amount? many packages that appear to be the same as in the past, actually contain far less product.... inflation.

why is it unreasonable to expect casinos to do exactly what other businesses do. if one is going to spend exactly the same, one should expect less 10 years later.

[Tedlark]

But, interestingly, as paytables decreased and games became unplayable, tBut the nutshell of the formula is that by decreasing your paytables to the point where you lose your steady, experienced players, you can in fact overcome the loss and perhaps even increase revenue and profits if you're in the right market.

The Beau RIvage is one of the nicest hotel resorts on the Gulf Coast. The hotel itself is spectacular, the staff is wonderful and the sea food buffet is the best in the country. They don't need to be generous with their comped rooms and flights, but they are. All they ask of us is that we play max coin quarter games long enough to give them a chance to recoup their investment. Through experience, we have learned what that number is.

Phil, can you please give the rest of us this number? You have repeatedly badgered "The Expert" or "The Experts" to divulge their secret plays and inside knowledge so I think you should share this number with us because fair is fair.

[tech58]

Notes, I have been lucky enough to have a casino that still offers the same 9-6 JOB that i started playing 15 years ago. The same machines i play have a multitude of other games, none of which has a pay-table above 98%. When i note the players around , not regularly, i see 4 out of 5 on garbage games.
They,bless them, are the reason i can play as i do despite your perfectly valid points about inflation.

[notes1]

tech, glad to hear you have some good games to play. can i ask, does the casino offer the same comp benefit for every dollar played on the 9/6 games as they did 10 years ago?

in defense of those who play weaker paytable games, some might argue that JOB can get pretty boring after awhile. better long term results, but sometimes not as much fun.

thanks

[tech58]

Notes, the comp situation has definitely gone down hill. Dissing of VP generally seems to be the reason for that.

Certainly a valid point about the nature of JOB. It hasn't worn me out yet but i know players who have.

On occasion, with BR down the tube and and one more night to go, I can actually stretch my last
$20-$30 with 9-6 JOB @ 5c, 25c a hand!! You want boring, try that for a couple hours.

[TripleTriple]

Why not make play more attractive, to draw in customers, then vacuum their wallets with the rest?

Because there are a lot of players who will still play with the less attractive pay schedules. Profit is about, other things equal, maximizing Players' Hands x House Edge, the product of the two. Certainly, if you get enough additional play by decreasing the house edge, you could increase profit. But there is no guarantee that, e.g., halving the house edge would not necessarily lead to more than a doubling of the amount of play.

Exactly. I recall reading about one casino that tried something about 20 or so years ago (not sure what venue, but I believe it was in AC). They placed a few single zero roulette tables on the main floor, as opposed to the high limit room, along with the then standard double zero wheel tables. They assumed the crowds would migrate to the single 0 tables with the better odds, despite the higher table limit. What they found was the opposite- the players actually continued to play primarily on the tables with the higher house edge- often betting enough or more to meet the minimum of the single 0 tables! Can you say penny slots? Maybe they liked betting with more people or liked to wager on that sexy 00. Of course when the suits saw that, they shook their heads and changed back the tables.

Skip ahead to today. Casinos now have many more roulette tables than before per sq/ft gaming area. They are very popular with the younger crowd. Despite raising the minimums from five to ten dollars, and now to $15 almost exclusively on the weekends (at least where I go), the tables continue to be PACKED with mostly kids who don't understand the rules and etiquette, much less the odds. They would be better served playing $50 minimum in the high limit area. That's a topic for the other games forum.

But, and to keep this relevant to video poker, they would be still better served finding a crappy 98% return game without too much effort. Amazingly, they would even be better off playing 6/5 JOB- assuming they played perfect strategy- a big assumption to make. Don't worry folks, they are all over on the Roulette Forum- if they don't go near the machines, they won't come here! Apologies to the roulette fans, I was a frequenter once upon a time.

IMO, this is one way the casinos have mitigated inflation- higher table limits. And without even providing any more value or benefit for it, because let's be real, table games don't earn comparable complementaries to slots & VP. Another slightly less insidious way is via resort fees (another day)...

I'd like to think like tech58 and hold out hope that someone could show that attractive paytables could be a benefit for both parties. Everytime a new casino opens or reopens I hope to be surprised. If only. The two saddest words in the English language. If only.