Billyjoe strategy

[onemoretry]

My stop point is determined by how much financial pain I want to endure.  Establishing a win point is crucial to a recreational player.
I agree with the concept of stopping once you've reached the "this is ugly and not much fun" point.

However, you totally lose me on the "win point" idea.

How can putting a cap on one's maximum allowable win for the day be crucial?

[FloridaPhil]

The question is "How much of a win is enough?" I don't stop playing if I'm winning, but I think it's important to cash out and keep your wins as you go along. My stop point is determined by how much money I brought to the casino.  For example, let's say I brought $300 to the casino that day.  If I put the whole $300 in the machine at once, I guarantee you that I will keep playing until I'm broke. If I play $20 at a time and cash out on every win over $50, I will go home with something.   It's just the way my brain works.. 

[Vman96]

How can putting a cap on one's maximum allowable win for the day be crucial?

I wouldn't say it's crucial for everyone. But if I got a big win early on and left the casino even, or even down, I would be quite pissed, nearly as pissed as losing big in the first place. If I win big, I am definitely never ramping up bets significantly like some may do on here.

[FloridaPhil]

If I leave the casino even, I consider it a good day.  My goal is to be entertained, play for at least 3 hours and leave with some money in my pocket. Three hours at a time is about all I can handle before my neck and back starts to cramp up.  Playing negative games is the norm for the vast majority of video poker players.  Since I'm paying to play, I try to find the most exciting way to play for the least amount of money.  Since I switched to short coin play, I've cut my average cost to less than $20 an hour, which I consider a bargain.  Because I switch to max coins whenever I win 4 coins or more, I still hit a good one once in a while. 
 
I wasn't playing video poker in 2001, but I am totally convinced that video poker today is a "long term loser", no matter who you are.  Now, if I were selling books and getting paid by casinos to teach people to play, it might turn the profit picture around.  No disrespect for anyone on this forum, but I just don't believe it's possible given the offerings we currently have. 

[BillyJoe]

[QUOTE=Vman96]   Although I think people could benefit gambling like billyjoe. I just wish I had the money to play the levels he does...

Although it's easy to understand why one would wish for a larger bankroll, don't assume that BJs methods change the odds at all or that people actually benefit using them.

His attitude of "always having a good time" is one we would all do well to emulate. His Win Stop / Loss Stop methods, not so much.

But although I'm convinced his methods are ineffectual, they aren't harmful. They just give you an artificial reason to stop playing. I guess if you're playing a pretty bad game (which I define as one where the house has the advantage rather than the player), this his methods actually help. Any reason you have that leads you to play less on a bad game will save you money. (But playing not at all would save you even more money.)

Bob
[/QUOTE]
Well, Bob, I know that we have had this discussion before. Assuming the game is fair, the math rules in VP, and I have NEVER maintained that this approach changes those odds.  But since this topic area is "Recreational Play", I am not sure that your recommendation of "not playing at all" on a game where the house has the advantage is very helpful.
 
I can't speak for everyone, but the house has the advantage on ALL VP games at the casinos that I frequent as a recreational player, some with more advantage than others. I try and offset some of that advantage with the comps that I receive, but I still need a dose of good fortune to walk away a winner. 
 
Managing my gaming bankroll helps me achieve my primary objectives, which are to have fun and still have some bankroll to play on throughout a gaming trip.  
 
BTW, Bob, how was the Bermuda cruise for you ?     
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[WVRadar]

[QUOTE=BobDancer] [QUOTE=Vman96]   I guess if you're playing a pretty bad game (which I define as one where the house has the advantage rather than the player), this his methods actually help. Any reason you have that leads you to play less on a bad game will save you money. (But playing not at all would save you even more money.)BobI can't speak for everyone, but the house has the advantage on ALL VP games at the casinos that I frequent as a recreational player, some with more advantage than others. I try and offset some of that advantage with the comps that I receive, but I still need a dose of good fortune to walk away a winner. 
 [/QUOTE]For those of us that don’t live near Las Vegas or Atlantic City, finding a good paying machine is nearly impossible.  8/5 Jacks or Better used to be the best paying machine I could find at the Meadows in Pennsylvania.  Now most of these machines are gone and the Jacks or Better machines are almost exclusively 7/5.  Adding to that insult, they even penalize you for playing poker instead of slots, giving you less points for your play.Despite all this, I would still rather play Video Poker instead of sitting in front of a slot machine mindlessly hitting the spin button.

[FloridaPhil]

I totally agree. Regular slots, even the new ones with movies and all kinds of graphics are mindless.  Video Poker gives you a chance to interact with the game and it's a very enjoyable pastime.  Once you get over the idea that you are going to strike it rich, it works. What did it for me was a chart I made. I'm a spreadsheet guy, so I built a spreadsheet showing the hourly loss for all the games I normally play.  I put in everything including the single coin and max coin percentages. I even added a couple of percent for errors.   I could clearly see how much it was costing me to play and it was eye opening.  Two things affect the hourly cost more than anything else; the odds and the amount wagered (obviously).  The best way to beat the casino on a negative expectation machine is to play as cheaply as possible.  If it costs them $30 an hour to have the machine in the place and you play for $5 an hour, you're beating them.  I find this hilarious...  Kind of like my wife telling me how much money she is going to save by shopping on sale days.