HELLO BOB DANCER......

[Tedlark]

I don't totally subscribe to the way Bob Dancer plays because we have differing playing styles. That much is obvious. Nor do I totally subscribe to the way Phil plays because we also have differing playing styles. Each to their own devices because I play the way I want to play. As does both Bob and Phil.

Good luck next week at Cherokee Phil.

[ko king]

I don't totally subscribe to the way Bob Dancer plays because we have differing playing styles. That much is obvious. Nor do I totally subscribe to the way Phil plays because we also have differing playing styles. Each to their own devices because I play the way I want to play. As does both Bob and Phil.

Good luck next week at Cherokee Phil.

 
One thing is for sure, my style doesn't work anymore. As far as playing this area I would have to say Phil's style would probably produce better results. For years I played pretty much like Dancer, look for the best pay tables, take advantage of all the free play and work my host. This style of played worked well for me and I spent a lot of time in the casino playing $2 denom DDB and TDB, played right at the expected return for hands played and actully finished above that number a few years. While I can still find the same exact pay tables I always played the offers have been reduced. Here's the kicker to my situation, I can't play as long as I used to play using the same size of bankroll. Free play aside I just can't find the bigger hands like I used to, it's been like that for a few years running now. No doubt I would play more if the bigger hands were showing up and I could earn more free play, it just isn't happening. Now some people on this board believe that nothing has changed but looking around the casinos in this area it's obvious that many people must believe something is different because they're not at the casino. The casinos in this area can't draw players in like they used to, you could say it's because of increased competition but I would point out that the biggest casino by far in this area shut it's doors and there are a few others hanging on by a thread. Last I heard two casinos just sold for pennies on the dollar, money losing businesses nowdays. I'm not knocking Bob Dancer but there's no way his style would work over in this area, could it help control losses, maybe, could it turn me into a winning player, I don't see how. Now I've considered Phil's style but I put it to the test, just reading his thoughts and ideas I can see where it would obviously reduce a player like myself losses which is a good thing. It doesn't seem like I have a prayer playing anymore and controlling losses looks like the only hope if I want to continue playing.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko king]It doesn't seem like I have a prayer playing anymore and controlling
losses looks like the only hope if I want to continue playing.[/quote]You're not alone.  You can't mark up all these loses up to stupid losers who don't have enough discipline.   If you want to play video poker these days you need to pay more attention to your loses than your winnings.  No longer can you just sit there and wait for the posted return on the game to magically bail you out.  Everyone has his/he own way of dealing with this.   For some it may mean shorter seasons.  For others it may mean playing smaller denominations or going to single coin.  Ignoring the problem and charging ahead as usual just makes you more depressed.   Video poker is suppose to be fun not painful.  All I did was find a way to enjoy the game without a cloud hanging over me every time I came home.  You can do it too.  It may not be my way, but there is a better way than trying to chase a fantasy designed to separate you from your money.

[ko king]

[quote=ko king]It doesn't seem like I have a prayer playing anymore and controlling losses looks like the only hope if I want to continue playing.You're not alone.  You can't mark up all these loses up to stupid losers who don't have enough discipline.   If you want to play video poker these days you need to pay more attention to your loses than your winnings.  No longer can you just sit there and wait for the posted return on the game to magically bail you out.  Everyone has his/he own way of dealing with this.   For some it may mean shorter seasons.  For others it may mean playing smaller denominations or going to single coin.  Ignoring the problem and charging ahead as usual just makes you more depressed.   Video poker is suppose to be fun not painful.  All I did was find a way to enjoy the game without a cloud hanging over me every time I came home.  You can do it too.  It may not be my way, but there is a better way than trying to chase a fantasy designed to separate you from your money.
[/QUOTE]

 
I'm going to go back and read thru some of your post to fully understand how it works. I had a friend who used to play the same game as myself $2 DDB always at max coin, when things turned sour around these parts he started playing $1 DDB. He didn't use any system but he would play 5 hands at single coin then play 1 hand at max coin. I do know it allowed him to play longer and his losses were reduced, I do recall a night that he got lucky and caught a royal at max coin. After he caught the royal it was right back to max coin because he thought his luck may be changing. I believe it took him 5 trips to give the royal winnings back and he quit playing. A couple of years ago I quit going for 6 months, didn't walk into a casino, just stayed busy working and playing golf. As soon as the weather turned cold I got bored and started playing aging, bad decision. I have dropped the denomination I play down to $1 but I'm still getting the snot beat of me. I did start using my free play and taking a stab at the $5 denomination but I haven't cashed a ticket yet doing that. I'm now at over 40K hands played of $1 TDB without a handpay at one casino, longest dry spell I've ever had.

[olds442jetaway]

I hope you don't come near to my no hand pay streak KO. None since last October. Average bet about two bucks and 3 trips a week. This is almost impossible for me to believe though I know it really is possible. I think I posted a short time ago my average W-2Gs per year run 6-10 per year for the last twenty years. I post this for mainly one reason and that is to show how much luck really does play into our total returns. If I am this far in the wrong direction, there must be a few others on the plus side of the curve. As many have posted over time, it is so hard to quit when hitting early in a session or being up a small amount after playing quite a while. The lure of the jackpot is always there and that is what keeps most of us playing besides loving to play just to play.

[FloridaPhil]

[quote=ko king]He didn't use any system but he would play 5 hands at single coin then play 1 hand at max coin.[/quote]This one of the big misunderstandings about the Cheap Strategy.  The only reason I switch to max coins after a four coin win in deuces is convenience.  It has nothing to do with the fact that you just won 4 coins.   The odds of hitting a jackpot are exactly the same on each and every hand.  Your friend was on the right track, but counting hands is tedious. The Cheap Strategy is not in conflict with the math.  The odds are still negative, but your loses are significantly reduced and when you do hit a max coin jackpot you keep more of it.  It works, but people read a few lines, make up there own mind and dismiss it without even giving it a try.  of course if you're Bob Dancer you have big reasons to bash it.  If everyone played my way the casinos would be out of business in 6 months. 

[DaBurglar]

DaBurglarYou were the one who called Dancer out to make a reply. He told you in his opening remarks that he has not played there in a few years. He also said he knows of a few APs who play there and find advantage plays and do ok. The reason he stated about not wanting to live there ect was meant as he would rather live in Nevada BUT he would have no problem playing in AC as he trust the VP in AC BECAUSE he knows of a few players that do well there. So in retrospect he did answer your question best he could. He could just relay what he has heard from other advantage players who do in fact play in Atlantic city.I know this was not the answer you wanted from MR Dancer but he could only report what he knows.There is a big and I mean big divide on this site from posters who believe VP is rigged and those who believe the game has not changed just the pay tables and comps. Neither side is going to change their opinion and why should they? You played in AC for many years and you know what you have seen change over the years. No one is going to tell you different and again why should they? Those that play and have seen no difference in VP will tell you what they have found. Both sides do and will continue to disagree.It makes for interesting reading as both sides continue to butt heads on the honesty of VP in their jurisdiction. We should be able to disagree and still keep the argument civil.

Thanks for a well written reply.....I accept my share of the responsibility for this thread going south, but the fact remains my original point/post has been clouded by a lot of noise and emotion and needless hostility.....I have no problem with Bob's reply except for the LAST paragraph....he did not NEED to say any of that.   Seriously, go back and just read the first page of this thread, up to Dancer's reply....everything that happened after that is the result of that.   I wanted him to give me some reason as to why I (and now others) are seeing such high rates of nonpaying dud hands coming out of AC machines, particularly ones with "good" paytables.....AS I said many times before Case,  I DO NOT THINK VIDEO POKER IS RIGGED!!!! What I do believe is that Atlantic City has some sort of SYSTEMIC (i.e. "established") way of offering video poker that in actuality is VERY VERY different than places like Las Vegas (and as I have said NUMEROUS times previously, I believe VEgas and all NEvada to be LEGIT in its Video Poker practices and offerings.)   This is why I have, in the last year or so, drastically reduced (by at least 2/3, and will do so even further as my freeplay offers evaporate) my overall play of Video Poker in AC and now play mostly real live poker and a little table games like Black Jack.....

[DaBurglar]

Many MANY other posters on this site (and I suspect, many peoiple who read this site but do not post, i.e. "lurkers") have essentially echoed many of my sentiments regarding Atlantic City and its decline, and specifically the awful performance of its video poker offerings.Likewise, other posters who play mostly in OTHER parts of the country have come forth and talked about how "BAD" things have gotten in the last ten years or so with respect to Video Poker costing us players MORE AND MORE while giving back LESS AND LESS in all manner of return (whetehr it be profit, entertainment, comps, fun, etc etc)Bob Dancer, and the alleged "few" of additional PROFESSIONALS who claim to make a living playing Video Poker are doing something that, if we are all brutally honest) is NOT realistic or even attainable for everyone else.   I now question whether it is even attainable anymore for THEM.....I do not expect Bob, or anyone else in his select group of "PROs", to answer any of the following questions or issues, nor do I really care if they do......I am addressing all the other players who still play Video Poker for fun and are trying to minimize the growing level of cost/losses without simply STOPPING play altogether:  What exactly is the breakdown of Bob Dancer's  "living" when it comes to what he earns playing video poker and everything else he takes in, in terms of money, over the course of the past several years?   In other words, if Bob dancer earned, before taxes, $450,000  how much of that was actually the result of PROFIT from Video Poker sessions, and how much came from the sales of all his promotional/self help/instructional material for Video Poker players, how much came from fees or consulting, how much was from his Public/personal appearances/radio shows etc etc etc?????   How much is nebulous "comps" and perks;  that is, how does he calculate the value of all the free buffets he eats in Vegas as the result of his video poker play and where does things like this fit in in terms of the overall balance sheet of his life that enables/encourages him to continually make the claims he does about earning a living, and a profitable one at that, from playing ADVANTAGE video poker?Just how many (approximately)  OTHER people are there out in the casino universe who are LIKE bob dancer and are doing (or trying) exactly what he does with respect to Video poker??   Its obvious to me, given how tough it has seemingly become for Casinos and their parent companies to earn the profits they need, or desire, to produce the investment returns the shareholders demand,  that the casinos will no longer tolerate or abide people like Bob who are somehow able to "work" the system into such an advantageous position for themselves.....seriously, does anyone truly believe Bob's claims that if....IF players like US were to somehow start applying all of his principles and methods, we would all see significantly improved results, and that there would be no subsequent RESPONSE from the casinos to try and thwart what was taking place???    In other words, if we all drink Bob's kool aid, adhere to his methods and principles, and start playing video poker the "advantageous" way, WHAT does everyone think or believe would happen or follow in the wake of such a development???   Seriously, think it out people......Bottom line......Video Poker is no longer "beatable"  (not without resorting to all kinds of extreme 'perception' changes and accounting quirks, like including free coupons for Valet Parking a player receives from being a "diamond level" card holder  in the "PROFIT" column of the balance sheet!)     Like a lot of different Casino Games, as time goes by and certain players learn how to leverage certain aspects of the casino's own rules and games to their advantage, casinos will change or alter their practices to deal with the activities of certain players so that they no longer have an "ADVANTAGE" (such as happened with CARD COUNTING in Blackjack during the late 1970s and into the 1980s, and the subsequent changes all casinos implemented to thwart card counters.)     If....IF, somehow, players all of a sudden began practicing Bob Dancer's recipe for success at Video Poker,  and it started to work exactly as Bob envisions and claims it should work for players,  the casinos are not going to sit idly by and allow this transpire.BUT alas,  I truly do not think (even with implementing all of Bob's ideas and steps) that it is possible ANY MORE to achieve the success Bob claims he achieves every year......not unless Bob starts spilling the beans as to how he REALLY TRULY achieves his success!!!    He tipped his hand slightly back in another post when he alluded to his so-called  "SECRET"  backdoor tricks and steps he uses to achieve success.....now that part I really do believe, that Bob has a number of "INSIDER"  tricks and plays that allow him to do things the rest of us simply CANNOT DO.   This (the existence and use by Bob Dancer of "insider" tricks and plays)  in actuality  goes a long way to explain everything.......