Should Everyone Always Play Max Coins?

[FloridaPhil]

I am often criticized for repeating myself on this forum. Those comments are often warranted. However, when comments are made that need clarification, I feel we should clarify them. The biggest issue we have in this regard is applying the same strategy a professional player uses to profit from video poker to everyone who plays the game. I don't believe "Everyone" should play video poker like a professional.

For the majority of Recreational video poker players, the answer to the question above is YES. No one wants to be the beneficiary of a royal flush and be paid $62.50 instead of $1,000. This will seriously depress you and ruin your day if not your week. Your friends will call you an idiot and you will feel like one.

From a purely mathematical standpoint, the answer is MAYBE. Most of today's small denomination video poker games are seriously negative. This means the house takes 3-4% or more as their fee for allowing you to play their games. If you make errors, this adds to their fee. You may not always feel the effect of this fee in your results. On occasion you may have a great day and walk away with a big profit. This could happen in succession, making you feel like a long term winner. In time, this fee will take away more money than the game gives you back. There is no escaping the math of a negative video poker game.

You may earn comps that offset all or part of this fee. These are only valuable if they have value to you. My wife and I use comped rooms to take frequent mini vacations. If you are never going to stay overnight at a casino, this comp is worthless.

If you do the math on a typical 96-97% video poker game plus any errors, you will discover the long term accumulated fee is often greater than the value of the royal flush bonus. If you hit a royal more frequently than is normal, this may not be the case in the short term. Sooner or later, you will be paying to experience royals. Professionals and those that play video poker for profit never play negative games, so they don't see the logic in playing single coin and they are right for the games they play.

If you are going to a typical casino today with a limited budget and you wish to stretch your playing time, playing single coin video poker is most likely the cheapest game in the casino. If you do, play as small as the game allows. Be aware that the strategy of single coin play is different. You will not get rich playing this way. You will suffer through short coin royals. However, you will enjoy your visits to the casino at a much lower long term cost than most of the player's around you.

A few years ago, I was sitting in a casino in Colorado. I believe it was in Cripple Creek. An older gentlemen was sitting across from me playing video poker. He looked to be in his eighties. I noticed he was playing single coin nickels. I casually asked him if he played often? "Every day", he said. I asked him how he felt about playing single coin? He smiled and said "It's all the same game". I smiled back knowing he was having a great time with what time he had left. We should all feel that way.

[FAA]

Great post. I only play max coin half the time on 99.54% accessible games. Too many overall losing hands. In March, I was lucky enough for a max quarter RF anyway. Last week, lucky enough for a max dollar SF. Paying to experience a premium hand is anathema! I strive to save and beat the system.

[FloridaPhil]

I strive to save and beat the system.

I'm not trying the beat anyone but the undertaker.

[Jstark]

If you have any edge, yes. If you don't, don't make a single bet. And please don't give me the "it's entertainment" garbage.

[FloridaPhil]

If you have any edge, yes. If you don't, don't make a single bet. And please don't give me the "it's entertainment" garbage.

So what would you have said to that old man playing single nickel VP? Get a job? You're an idiot? I'm smarter than you? You are ignoring the fact that not everyone plays VP for profit. Do you think that old man knew he was going to lose long term? You bet. Did he care? Yes, he played small so he could afford to play every day.

Living in your own view of the world is not going to help anyone but yourself. Your father and mother may play video poker. Would you tell them to stay home if they don't have positive games to play? If they are still here, they only had an extra $100 between them and they wanted to spend the day at the casino, what would you say then? It's the little people like them that are paying APs bills. I want them to pay less.

[Tedlark]

I personally would not have mentioned anything at all to that "older gentleman" because it really wasn't any of my business.

On the flipside: Phil, have you ever questioned a player as to how he felt about playing max. coin?

For full disclosure: I have always been, and always will be a max.coin in player and I consider myself to be more of a recreational player who is playing for profit than "Professional Player".

[FloridaPhil]

On the flipside: Phil, have you ever questioned a player as to how he felt about playing max. coin?

I don't initiate VP strategy conversations when I am at the casino. I don't go out of my way to start conversations about anything because they usually turn out to be long discussions about personal problems or with people I would rather not talk to. I'm not antisocial, but some subjects are better off not discussed openly with strangers.

On occasion, someone will tell me the machines are tight today or they are rigged. I tell them the machines aren't tight one day and loose the next. I tell them the odds in this casino are seriously negative and they should expect to lose more than they win. Knowledgeable players agree. I tell them we would all be better off financially if we didn't play here. I tell them playing as little as possible is the next best thing. I say you can accomplish this by playing less hands or by betting less money per hand. Some get this, most don't.

Players have been conditioned by casinos to believe paying for a royal flush is worth whatever it costs to hit one. This increases coin-in. Because the games are negative, this increases the casino's profit margin. They further entice us to bet more by offering comps. If I wanted to, I could fill my closets with salad shooters, ice tea classes and rain slickers. If I owned a dollar store, I could get some of my money back. Sadly I don't.

Nothing I am saying here has any relevance to playing positive VP games. If you have an edge, you have a chance. If the house edge is 3%, you are losing more with every additional coin you play. If you can earn comps or incentives that are worth 3% or more, you have a positive VP game.

Playing a 97% game with single coin reduces your hourly cost to play because you are reducing your coin in by 4 coins a hand. Most players believe paying more to hit a max coin royal is worth the extra cost. I'm not arguing it isn't. As long as we understand the math, paying more to win more is OK with me.

For those of you who believe I am wrong and I am sure there are some, I challenge you to a test. Let's set up two 97% Deuces Wild games. One is fixed at max coins and one at single coin. We will both have the same fixed number of coins to play with. Let's see which game has more money in the long term (assuming we live long enough to find out).

[FAA]

set up two 97% Deuces Wild games. One is fixed at max coins and one at single coin. We will both have the same fixed number of coins to play with. Let's see which game has more money long term.
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Max coin player will likely be shell shocked and baffled. I bet all this money. Where's the return?

[Tedlark]

On the flipside: Phil, have you ever questioned a player as to how he felt about playing max. coin?

I don't initiate VP strategy conversations when I am at the casino. I don't go out of my way to start conversations about anything because they usually turn out to be long discussions about personal problems or with people I would rather not talk to.

Didn't you just contradict yourself? Did you not say earlier that you initiated a casual conversation with an elderly gentleman about how often he played and his single coin play?

Just asking.

[billryan]

The threads may change, but the song remains the same.