the middle east

[notes1]

the first time i remember hearing news about the middle east was 1974, the oil crisis. i was 20 yrs old. a few years later, the iran hostage crisis began. forty years later, i cannot recall a year, a month, maybe even a week, where there has not been another conflict involving that part of the world.

i have gotten tired of it. what the hell is wrong with some of these folks, who are either unable to compromise on anything or just enjoy conflict.

we should not waste a single american life or one more nickel of tax payer money in this region. other than israel, there is no other civilized, democratic society. other than oil, which we we no longer need, that have little to offer. those countries that need their oil, can fend for themselves.

russia battled for years in afghanistan w/out success, we came along and thought we could change the country....wrong. let russia or china try to deal with the middle east, they will also fail.

screw the whole region!

[tech58]

Notes the problem goes back to boundaries that were literally imposed on the middle east after WWI.
The area had no country style boundaries before that only '"tribal" or religious sect regions.
Drawing such boundaries across the area created "fracture lines "that persist to this day.Sunnis against shiites, kurds from a totally different area, against both. Palestinians who were forced from their homes in 1948 to create the state of Israel will never give up their fight.
This is only the "tip of the iceberg" of the areas problems. But ask your self this question, why do the religious leaders of the muslim world not speak out against terrorism and violence?
I am not positing that this is right or that it is wrong, only that it is a fact.Or rather a complex set of facts, that probably will not see a resolution in our life time.

[notes1]

tech, i am by no means an expert on the middle east. but, a quick search reveals that most of modern (and longer) history has been replete with conflicts in that part of the world.

i admit that i bought into the BUSH fairy tale that the iraqi's would welcome americans with open arms. it made sense, at least to me. why wouldn't their country not be grateful for removing a murderous dictator and giving them their freedom. but, it has not worked out.

after 40 years of living through one mid east conflict, war, uprising, etc, i have had enough.

[tech58]

Notes,i know that you and i,and most Americans, would understand and strongly support the concepts of "country" and "freedom".
However,try to imagine a different mind set where tribal/ethnic/family, and religious dogma, are not only a predominant factor, but are the ONLY important concepts that EXIST.
Even the concept of "peace" is different in this mind set than ours. For a devout muslim, peace is a STRUGGLE to, convert or kill the infidels. This is why what we call "terrorism" is another concept that is foreign to their minds. They view violence as a tool to achieve the goals of their struggle worldwide!
Believe it or not,it's all in their book!!
So where do we go from here? "Terrorism is not going to go away. The madrasas are right now training the next generations of "peace" warriors in many countries around the world,including OURS!
We underestimate the strength of the enemy at our own peril!!
The next few generations of Americans and other freedom loving people around the world have one hell of a challenge at their doorstep.
Right now the scariest part of that? THEY DON"T EVEN KNOW IT !!

[Carcounter]

Yep, Iraq is a country with borders that were drawn up after WW2. Let the country be split up into homelands for the different tribes and let's get the hell outta there.

[tech58]

We could very well "get the hell outta there", but that will not cause them to get the hell outta HERE!

AGAIN i will ask this question. Why do the religious leaders of the muslim world not condemn terrorism and related violence?

[notes1]

tech, you make strong arguments. but, here is what i know. force against some of these countries has not worked and neither has appeasement. trying to force them to act like a civilized society has failed and so has trying to talk and negotiate. bribing them with billions does not work. this is a mentality that the western world simply cannot understand. they do not welcome the possibility of democracy, but rather many seem to prefer dictatorships.

the USA does not need anything from this region of the world. let those who need their oil (europe and asia), deal with these folks. we can always keep a military presence somewhere's nearby, if needed for our own protection.

other that that, get the hell out of there. no money, no more american troops. we have donated billions and enough of our brave soldiers, have donated enough limbs and lives.

[tech58]

Notes, i agree with every point you make.
But consider this, Iran is the wild-card. Can they be allowed to dominate the area,consolidate forces,develop nuclear weapons,and use them?
Trump has stated that they cannot be allowed to develop nukes. How do we handle that?
If we don't, we may catch all the suitcase nukes headed our way, but maybe not!

[Tedlark]

Notes, i agree with every point you make.
But consider this, Iran is the wild-card. Can they be allowed to dominate the area,consolidate forces,develop nuclear weapons,and use them?
Trump has stated that they cannot be allowed to develop nukes. How do we handle that?
If we don't, we may catch all the suitcase nukes headed our way, but maybe not!

And it will only take not catching just that one suitcase which will lead to.......

[tech58]

Read History.
Google the "Battle of Tours-732 AD".
A partial quote from Edna St. Vincent Millay,"...all this was done before."
The short version of the story is that muslim armies had conquered most of the civilized world and were moving across the Pyrenees, from the conquered lands of present day Spain and Portugal, to take the rest of present day Europe. A disaster which would have destroyed what would become western civilization after the Renaissance. The Battle of Tours is heralded by historians as a turning point in favor of western civilization and Christianity and it's after effects remain to this day.
This bit of history is part of the heritage of my wife's family. One of her ancestors was, Charles "The Hammer" Martel, 686-741 AD. The leader of the Frankish army,the victor at the Battle Of Tours.
The muslim armies were eventually driven from the Iberian Peninsula back to Africa. Their power was sapped by religious splits, and their civilization self destructed. Only to be reinvigorated, many centuries later by oil money.
Why do i bore you with this story? To encourage you to THINK about it.

One last plea for an answer to the question about muslim religious leaders,or i will have to propose an answer myself