No more FPDW anywhere!

[dinghy]

I speculated on the reason the number of B&M casinos have increased in AZ.

Sorry, misunderstood your point. But legalized online casinos are growing the market. So you would still have the B&Ms, possibly with their revenue somewhat intact. But then the online revenue would add vastly to that.

This is New Jersey, compiled by UNLV:

https://gaming.library.unlv.edu/reports/ac_hist.pdf



In four years, overall revenue grew 65%.

[Karl_EDT]

Are we supposed to feel any sympathy for casinos? Because I don't. Glad they got screwed during covid.

Karl is right though, they're obviously greedy and anti-consumer. Especially in regional markets. And as the wall street casino cartels consolidate property ownership, so are the formerly competitive casino resort markets like LV. People complain on a daily basis, 5 dollar bottled water, 30 dollar drinks. 50 dollars for breakfast. Skimpy Comps. Worse and worse odds on everything. 7/5 DDB, 6/5 blackjack, 000 roulette all with high table minimums to add insult to injury. Slots that hold over 15%+. Trends are definitely going down a one way linear path, and it's definitely not in the favor of the consumers.

But the reason they are is because it works, as the player base keeps coming back for more abuse. If it didn't work, they wouldn't run it like they do. No activism from video poker players of all people will change that.

I highlighted and boldfaced the part of poster applepear's statement that partly sums up my negative opinion. Such things as those, plus the aformentioned exorbitant parking rates that used to be free, and the stupid resort fee shell game, are reasons I no longer go to casinos to play vp. I curtailed my visits long before Covid.

Poster Dinghy, I freely admit you obviously know WAYYYYYYYYYYY more about today's casino market and playing opportunities, and you seem to be incomprehensible motivated to get me to change my O P I N I O N. I'm going to choose to retain my negative opinion, and I'm going to suggest that you send your resume to the few remaining casino corporations operating the consolidated casino market, I'm sure they could find such a enthusiastic person a decent job in PR or marketing.

I regret getting p.o.'d at your callous and unkind remark about "gamblers being the worst people" etc. I don't know why I allowed that remark to p.o. me as bad as it did, since I am not a gambler and have chosen to basically stop frequenting & playing VP at casinos a long time ago, save for very infrequent visits that are part of some other activity like passing through on the way somewhere else. Other games and forms of gambling like sports or cards absolutely do not interest me. I enjoy some decent poker once in a while against living breathing people. I hope you win a crapload of money, I really do,with whatever games you choose to play, like many other people and posters here I enjoy seeing casinos lose to people.

Your Covid analysis and how it impacted casinos and society is not something I agree with either. The whole economy suffered, not just casinos, and casinos are not essential industries or businesses like Supermarkets, retail supply stores, manufacturing and yes even restaurants which still have not recovered. Sure casinos employ some people and provide taxes. But No one knew or understood at the time of the Covid shutdown, the first 4-6 months of the pandemic, what we now understand today. People were dying left and right, so too bad if gaming was not available for a while.

My opinion of this website and the games here is extremely positive; the price of a monthly gold member is a huge bargain for the games offered, many of these games I would never get to play in casino, real money or not. I say this so as you know I am not just a grouch.

[dinghy]

you seem to be incomprehensible motivated to get me to change my O P I N I O N.

I'm showing this to my wife the next time she says I'm too introverted.

[Karl_EDT]

I speculated on the reason the number of B&M casinos have increased in AZ.

Sorry, misunderstood your point. But legalized online casinos are growing the market. So you would still have the B&Ms, possibly with their revenue somewhat intact. But then the online revenue would add vastly to that.

This is New Jersey, compiled by UNLV:

https://gaming.library.unlv.edu/reports/ac_hist.pdf



In four years, overall revenue grew 65%.

ok different focus for a moment here; and I'm going to say up front I'm about to say something non-supportive and critical. This four year growth in revenue you highlighted could be fueled by the money the federal government, and some states, handed to people during the first year+ of the pandemic. the typical casino customer demographic: a majority of customers/players are not wealthy or even upper middle class with lots of discretionary disposable wealth, they are middle or lower class or even poor, the type of person, economically speaking, who should limit gaming or not play at all. Taking welfare or social security funds meant to allow people to survive, and giving the vast majority of it to casinos, is not a good postitive thing.

Referring to gaming & gambling as a 'industry' or even 'market' is questionable.,,,entertainment business is probably the best word I can think of instead to refer to casino gambling, since that's what I regard it as, entertainment. The benefits that people sight for having a lot of casinos, such as the taxes they yield and jobs they provide, really do not offset the economic damage they ca potentially do in the long run to local communities and the economy at large, because they really truly end up concentrating wealth & money in the hands of a few.

There is a "right" size for the casino business and gaming in general and I believe we exceeded it a long time ago; but this recent, current growth that is largely fueled by online gaming is not good at all for the bigger picture, surely you can see that. People blowing money playing games online from home in their pajamas does not benefit the economy and society very much if at all, there is little if any employment growth from this, and much of this is fueled by credit cards, which is a huge problem right now and has been for a very long time. It's an unsustainable situation.
I have no idea how to fix it since the solutions really boil down to personal choice and freedom, how do you convince people to act in their own long term benefit if they can't see it themselves? How do you protect people from themselves? How do you combat selfish shortsighted tendencies in the human heart? I don't know.

And I don't think any of that applies to anyone here on this forum, you all (even Mr. Dinghy, and Faa whose posts I often do not understand but seems to be a happy go lucky guy who probably is a lot of fun in real life) seem to be intelligent and thoughtful people, evidenced by the posts here and the things most of you say. I now expect to be clobbered in response to this opinion, but that's ok, I am kinda asking for it now!

[olds442jetaway]

No clobbering from me. I will never touch on line gaming. I remember when all of the stimulous payments were coming in. Some of the poorer people worked at the Spa at Mohegan Sun. Many young single moms. I have a friend that in the office worked there. It was like who was going to get a new tattoo, who was going to Cancun on vacation, and who was going to hang at the casino and pound down 17 buck cocktails. I also saw many at the casino once welfare checks or Social Security would arrive. Mostly all locals. And that was before on line gaming. I can only imagine now. I’m not the morality police, so I will close with just one word SAD!

[Karl_EDT]

No clobbering from me. I will never touch on line gaming. I remember when all of the stimulous payments were coming in. Some of the poorer people worked at the Spa at Mohegan Sun. Many young single moms. I have a friend that in the office worked there. It was like who was going to get a new tattoo, who was going to Cancun on vacation, and who was going to hang at the casino and pound down 17 buck cocktails. I also saw many at the casino once welfare checks or Social Security would arrive. Mostly all locals. And that was before on line gaming. I can only imagine now. I’m not the morality police, so I will close with just one word SAD!

I appreciate what you said Olds and agree, I too don't want to be regarded as some moral majority (or minority, take your pick) windbag; I have many faults and have done my fair share of dumb crap in my life but I try to learn and not repeat mistakes. I am in the top 10% of wealth, whether it's Canada or the USA. I ceased being a vp casino regular before covid simply because I no longer wanted to put up with what I perceived as its downside & cost; the reward, which is or was quality fun entertainment, disappeared starting around 2013 and continued. That's why I really appreciate this website, the games and things it offers, and it's people. I really have learned a lot from everyone here, including and especially mr. dinghy even if I do not agree with him. I like hearing and reading about other people's experiences, you can live and learn vicariously (if that's the right word?) Your experiences and anecdotes are interesting, I like seeing pictures of everything from Doris' beautiful cats to pictures of VP wins like Ted's and wildman the royal flush guy, etc.

[olds442jetaway]

I did want to add one thing. As an American who pays big Federal and State income taxes, I do get burned up over the more than 40 percent of Americans who pay no Federal Income tax. Not the ones that are in that situation due to no fault of their own, but the ones and there are many that continue to make poor life choices.

[dinghy]

I see I struck a nerve with my "worst people" remark, but if you look back at my post I was responding to the idea of collective action against the casinos. My point was that it's difficult to accomplish a goal when your comrades are a bunch of retards.

I have no idea how to fix it since the solutions really boil down to personal choice and freedom, how do you convince people to act in their own long term benefit if they can't see it themselves?

Irresponsible behavior is systemically encouraged by government. We have too much government.

[olds442jetaway]

Now that I agree with 100 percent and always have. When I was 10, my Great Grandfather who was born in the early 1880s explained all of that to me. He was one time head of and I think Treasurer of the Republican Party in Southwestern Virginia. During the Depression, there was no cash down there and everyone bartered or used “ script “ issued by the coal mines. After the Depression, he built the family home which was also a small General Store and 2 pump gas station. Luckily, at a young age I learned about business from him and about farming from the family farm just 5 miles away. Those were great summers for at least 10 years. Different world down there even today. Been in Ct since 1953. May be off track a bit on this thread, but our Country is fast approaching the point of no return. I had about 6 months of full pay Deuces Wild when Mohegan Sun first opened. Have to be content now with 98.91 or 98.8 Bonus Deuces.

[dinghy]

I had about 6 months of full pay Deuces Wild when Mohegan Sun first opened.

Nice! They had some good stuff over the years, and the currently available PickEm is not shabby at all. Look at this remark from the vpfree2 comments:

"For those of you who persevered in boycotting MS, your strategy might have worked. All $5, $10, & $25 Pick 'Em is back to full-pay."

The date? June 2005.

Almost 20 years ago, players were sufficiently dissatisfied to boycott. It just shows that some things never change. If there had been casinos and message boards in the year 2024 BC, people would be lamenting that conditions were so much better in 2034 BC .

Also in that 2005 period, Mohegan had 99.9% Super Aces on 50-plays.

It would not surprise me to discover that early vp circumstances were largely accidental. 100% vp games may have happened because casinos didn't know the actual returns. And then once the good games were embedded, inertia kept them there.