No more FPDW anywhere!

[mike elbedewy]

I was just told last week in Sam's Town that they, Skyline and Airiz. Charlies all removed their machines in the last few months and there are ZERO machines left in the whole state.
Wow.

[olds442jetaway]

Seems like the trend Nationwide. Already happened in Ct years ago and the 99 percent machines are still fading out as they wear out for the most part. I don’t get it. VP players drop plenty of coin at the casinos. Even with 99-100 percent machines.

[mike elbedewy]

A related question: we all know the "theoretical" return on the game is 100.76%.
Does anyone with inside casino experience know the actual return of the game with all player errors, tiredness, lack of knowledge, intoxication, etc.

[dinghy]

Does anyone with inside casino experience know the actual return of the game with all player errors, tiredness, lack of knowledge, intoxication, etc.

I'm not an insider, but for vp in general I would guess players cost themselves an extra 1 to 2% loss from incorrect draw card decisions.

It varies though by game and circumstance. Within the last couple of years, Arizona Charlie's Decatur had 50c FPDW which attracted some competent players who may have caused the particular game and denom to show a loss for the casino.

Sometimes a casino will tolerate an unprofitable game if the machine makes money overall. Stations had FPDW at 25c maximum, but you could play lesser games on the same machine up to $1 denom.

If FPDW really is extinct, I'm not sure what's highest of the remaining. Plaza has one full-pay Joker Wild at 100.65%. You can still find better returns than that on some progressives, but the advantage is temporary and you have to move on when the jackpot hits.

[olds442jetaway]

A couple of nearly 100 percent pickem left in Ct at Mohegan Sun. Dollars. Other than that 99.54 JOB quarters and up. On certain days with Triple Status points and other free play, you can probably get just over 100 percent. I’m not sure about the Progressives. I don’t play them.

[Karl_EDT]

We've broached this topic in other discussions; I think the only way to possibly reverse this awful trend in VP and casinos is to attempt to do the following: 1- A large number of casino patrons, players, customers etc must collectively and formally communicate in writing or email that they are fed up with the greedy actions of the big casino corporations. 2- Followup this statement of dissatisfaction with real actions, namely staying away from the casinos for a period of at least a month, or at the very least curtailing the money spent. 1 month, that should not be difficult for even the most addicted players and gamblers. I think July or AUgust, the heart of the summer season, would be a good time to do this. 3- When you resume playing and patronizing the establishments of Vegas, Reno, AC and other significant markets, keep reminding your hosts and anyone else who will listen at these casinos that you will do such a boycott again, only worse.

Of course this is not guaranteed to work and may have other repercussions, but does anyone else see a different alternative to get these corporations to at least cease making casinos in general, and VP in particular, ever more costly/shrinking value & entertainment, unfriendly and playable? The biggest reason I no longer seriously play is all these issues we touch upon in this forum, especially the blatant lack of customer service and price gouging/unreasonable cost increases.

[dinghy]

1- A large number of casino patrons, players, customers etc must collectively and formally communicate in writing or email that they are fed up with the greedy actions of the big casino corporations.

The biggest reason I no longer seriously play is all these issues we touch upon in this forum, especially the blatant lack of customer service and price gouging/unreasonable cost increases.

I've been doing this a long time, and without a doubt gamblers are some of the worst people on earth. Bad decisions at every opportunity, and always blaming someone else for their own problems.

The casinos give you 99% games and 1% slot club benefits, if you make the effort. By what possible standard could that be considered greedy? Is it because conditions are different than 10 or 20 years ago? Things change, how could they not? Changes can be good, bad or neutral.

By some measures, video poker opportunities have tightened, but other games have improved. Some of the big casino operators have pumped major money into sports betting. Promotions and signup incentives have been lucrative. For example, a book will offer some form of "money back" promo, and players will complain because you don't literally get your money back. You have to bet the money.

The horror.

[olds442jetaway]

Mohegan Sun in Ct and Foxwoods return 91 percent to patrons and lump Vp in with slots. I guess that’s why they don’t have much interest in keeping Vp players happy. However, I think if they factored in the huge amounts of coin in and time spent there, they would sing a different tune. I don’t think too many slot players put in 10 hours at a time like I do. I don’t know the average time a slot player plays, but if it’s an hour, at 9 percent, on 1,000 buck coin in, they make 90 bucks. On my 10,000 coin in with my average 98 percent return, they make 200 and most times much more.

[dinghy]

Mohegan Sun in Ct and Foxwoods return 91 percent to patrons and lump Vp in with slots. I guess that’s why they don’t have much interest in keeping Vp players happy.

Note that you're only observing one part of the operation.

I couldn't readily find Connecticut data, but here's what I see for New Jersey -- month of February 2024. B&M total casino revenue $212m, online casino 182, sports (mostly online) 92.

Unless trends reverse, gambling is destined to be primarily an online endeavor. New Jersey B&M revenue declined year-over-year, which is striking when you consider how hot inflation has been running.

B&M is diminishing, and presumably the customer base is changing. Management will adjust accordingly, probably to the dismay of B&M stalwarts.

[olds442jetaway]

Mohegan hosts many conventions now and Expos etc. They want to get into entertainment complexes. The State of Ct take and patron return info is public information. Will see if I can find the link