4th of July Contest

[cddenver]

One way to introduce some skill into these tournaments would be to disallow a player's best score or two and just make a player's 3rd, 4th, or 5th best score as eligible for the tournament.  Personally, I think the 5th best score would be a fine choice.
 
That's an original idea! 
 
After I read your post I thought about suggesting something similar - summing the top five scores for each player, or using the average of the top five scores.   I haven't got any miracle hits myself, but I think that taking them completely out of the mix wouldn't be fair to those players who have got them.   Find a balance that includes both luck and skill.
 

[New2vp]

Thanks cd,
On a game like Super Times Pay, the top scores are so far out of proportion that summing or averaging the top 5 scores would probably not change the order of who wins over the first-place-score-method too much at all.  It might discount those monster hits a tiny bit, but the chances of getting enough lower hits in your next 4 best games to offset a single 60000 or 120000 hand are really miniscule.
But, regardless of the final effect, I think your idea would be more popular because totally throwing away a huge score like dealt royal x 3 hands x 10 would seem unfair, if only to those lucky enough to get it.
 
However, this suggests another method to me that would still give credit to the top scores, one that is often used in nonparametric statistics.  Sum up the RANKS of the top 5 scores, assigning 1 for 1st place over all the players' games, 2 for 2nd over all the players' games, etc.  Require 5 plays to be eligible.  And whoever has the lowest sum of the 5 RANKS is the winner.
 
This is a bit more complicated to track since this sum will change as other players top any of your top 5 scores, but again fairer and more rewarding to those who are consistently nearer to the top, rather than unduly rewarding that single biggest hand.  Probably too complicated to be adopted, but it only cost me another few keystrokes to suggest it.

[cddenver]

 
However, this suggests another method to me that would still give credit to the top scores, one that is often used in nonparametric statistics.  Sum up the RANKS of the top 5 scores, assigning 1 for 1st place over all the players' games, 2 for 2nd over all the players' games, etc.  Require 5 plays to be eligible.  And whoever has the lowest sum of the 5 RANKS is the winner.
 
 
"I'm sensing a pattern here" 
 
What you said about something like an averaging scheme not making much of a difference in scores in an STP contest is quite true.  I was trying to think of something that could be used for all future contests regardless of game type to reduce wear and tear on those people setting up the contests, so that they wouldn't have to custom-make a "fair" scoring system for each one.  Your RANKS idea is a nice one, too!
 

[oej719]

Have a choice of different denominations that way we can play a FTT frolic thru town with pattern decection optional.

[cddenver]

Have a choice of different denominations that way we can play a FTT frolic thru town with pattern decection optional. 
 
Whatever we decide on for a new contest scoring system, oej, we need to get nailed down quick so that WM has time to get it in place for the next contest. 

[MikeA]

Keep thinking guys.  I don't know if any of the ideas would be acceptable to the folks who are trying to satisfy EVERYONE, but there has to be some way to make these Video Poker contests more than Slot Tournaments.  We've got our one-on-one challenges.  Maybe we just need to get that format expanded and have a weekly tournament just for bragging rights in a multi-person format.Honestly, if truth be known, I'm much more interested in playing than I am about winning, but if I'm going to play, I find no pleasure in pounding the ENTER key praying for a dealt Royal with a 5x+ multiplier because NOTHING else is going to get you anywhere near the top.  Note that filling a Royal with 10x is not going to do you any good at all now.  You'd only get 40K credits for that, so it's all or nothing.  That's a Slot Machine mentality.I'd rather be playing in a weekly multi-person challenge with options on either single line or multi line formats.  But it would have to be something where the bragging rights were earned by skillful play! 

[oej719]

Pattern detection and Ftt or I ain't playing

[shadowman]

If the contest uses any kind of multi-line format the winner will always be a dealt hand. The only question with the current contest is whether it would be aces w/kicker or RF dealt with a big multiplier. By going to single line a RF would still be needed only it would not have to be dealt. In that case, the rest of the hands would be the deciding factor as many RFs would be hit during the contest. 
 
Of course, this would mean the proper strategy would be to go for a RF on every hand until one is hit, which again would eliminate skilled play. I'm not sure there is a way to incorporate skilled play in tournament situations unless RFs are downgraded and no big bonus quads are involved. That is, something like JOB with RFs and SFs paying the same as a quad.

[MikeA]

That is my "take" on it to SM....it would be tough to make the contest equivalent to skilled cash play in a casino.  I know the casinos do not put on tournaments that way.  It is a marketing gimmick there and is no different here.  Nothing wrong with that.  It always draws in crowds both in the casinos and on the internet and that is "positive return" for those sponsoring the contests.But, back to the ways that it could be made so that skill plays a bigger role.  I really got tired of just hitting the Enter Key last night and went back to the regular games.You could do it by limiting entry to Gold Members because not too many people would pay for multiple memberships for the chance to re enter a contest that would pay off only in bragging rights!  And that is the only way right now anyway that anything could be restricted to Gold.  However, it would seem to me to be a very slight modification to the Challenge logic to open it up to multiple players rather than just two and that would turn it into a Contest rather than a Challenge.Maybe that Gold thing could be talked about in the other area since it really doesn't apply to non-Gold members.But I think the KEY to making it happen if there is one would be single line with no huge bonus hands.  I hadn't thought about reducing the Royal.  Maybe just eliminate it and call it a Straight Flush.  Might even be able to incorporate bonus for quads to make them 250 by adjusting the JOB 2:1 on two pair and maybe some adjustment on Straights, Flushes and Full Houses.  With that in place, you would still have the incentive to go for the big hands but wouldn't have ANY hands that would be windfalls and contest clinchers. That would give more incentive to play good strategy and know that you would be in the running or at least have a reasonable chance of being in the running, especially if the contest deducted for lost hands just as would happen in a cash play situation.  It would sure tighten up the top of the ladder!Think of the way we play the Challenges.  Credit totals can go NEGATIVE.  About the only adjustment to make the Challenges work in a Site Wide contest would be to pick a game that didn't have the bonuses and that had a Royal reduced to 1,250.  There wouldn't have to be a restriction on the number of hands....just carry the score from session to session for each player, which would require some modifications to the logic.The only thing that "Challenge" methodology doesn't address is players logging in from another IP address under a different name to start fresh at ZERO credits if their original or subsequent totals went negative.But I don't see how it could be an unlimited number of plays and be UNLIKE what the current contests are.  When you are not penalized for bad plays, you take skill out to a large degree.Maybe there is no good solution.  But I'm not giving up on trying to come up with something even if it isn't considered for implementation.If the contest uses any kind of multi-line format the winner will always be a dealt hand. The only question with the current contest is whether it would be aces w/kicker or RF dealt with a big multiplier. By going to single line a RF would still be needed only it would not have to be dealt. In that case, the rest of the hands would be the deciding factor as many RFs would be hit during the contest. 
 
Of course, this would mean the proper strategy would be to go for a RF on every hand until one is hit, which again would eliminate skilled play. I'm not sure there is a way to incorporate skilled play in tournament situations unless RFs are downgraded and no big bonus quads are involved. That is, something like JOB with RFs and SFs paying the same as a quad.

[faygo]

From where I sit, I think think the contests in their current format are just fine as they are really just a novelty. They do accomplish a relief from playing all the other games as skillfully as we can. They , by accident, also drive home the fact that "Special Plays" just do not work. Everyone is pounding away, holding only hands that score big and yet, playing correctly probably has led to the top scores. Maybe the top score folks would let us know if they were playing AP or not.
 
Oh, and Happy 4th of July to everyone.