Playing max (5) bets DDB, I'm wondering if my "intuitive" strategy for the following dealt hands is smart/dumb for the short a/o long term.
I have begun discarding the 2nd pair of any pair of aces, pair of XX dealt hand, figuring that any and every chance at going for quad aces is worth it, given the huge disparity in payout for quad aces (800-2000 units) vs a full house - 45 units - . Since two pair pays the same as a jacks or better pair, my intuition says go for it, at least for aces over.
Flopped flush w/ 4 cards to the RF. Go for the RF?
4 cards to a RF, with one of them paired, ie KH, QH, JH, JC, AH. Dump the JC?
3 cards to a RF, one of them paired, KC,QC,10C,QH, 6D. Dump QH & 6D?
Flopped full house that is either Aces, Deuces, Threes or Fours over, ie AAA66, 22299, 33355 etc. Keep the respective trips and go for the higher payout quads, with the fallback that worse case you have the 15 unit trips and potential to draw another pair as well if you miss the quad draw. Dumb play?
DDB Strategy Advice Wanted
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MikeA
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 3:50 pm
If I don't say this, someone else will: What is the paytable? It makes a difference in how you hold the marginal hands like the pair of aces and one other pair.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
Playing max (5) bets DDB, I'm wondering if my "intuitive" strategy for the following dealt hands is smart/dumb for the short a/o long term.
As previously mentioned all VP decisions are based on the paytable. The answers I provide here are based on standard 9-6 DDB (although they are also true for the 9-5 game).
I have begun discarding the 2nd pair of any pair of aces, pair of XX dealt hand, figuring that any and every chance at going for quad aces is worth it, given the huge disparity in payout for quad aces (800-2000 units) vs a full house - 45 units - . Since two pair pays the same as a jacks or better pair, my intuition says go for it, at least for aces over.
Correct.
Flopped flush w/ 4 cards to the RF. Go for the RF?
Correct.
4 cards to a RF, with one of them paired, ie KH, QH, JH, JC, AH. Dump the JC?
Correct.
3 cards to a RF, one of them paired, KC,QC,10C,QH, 6D. Dump QH & 6D?
Wrong. The bonus pay for all quads makes the pair of queens the best hold. All of these answers can be found in any one of the software packages available ... Winpoker, FVP, VPfW, etc.
Flopped full house that is either Aces, Deuces, Threes or Fours over, ie AAA66, 22299, 33355 etc. Keep the respective trips and go for the higher payout quads, with the fallback that worse case you have the 15 unit trips and potential to draw another pair as well if you miss the quad draw. Dumb play?
Hold the Aces but keep the FH with the low ones. However, if the FH only paid 7 as in some nickel machines then keep all the trips.
As previously mentioned all VP decisions are based on the paytable. The answers I provide here are based on standard 9-6 DDB (although they are also true for the 9-5 game).
I have begun discarding the 2nd pair of any pair of aces, pair of XX dealt hand, figuring that any and every chance at going for quad aces is worth it, given the huge disparity in payout for quad aces (800-2000 units) vs a full house - 45 units - . Since two pair pays the same as a jacks or better pair, my intuition says go for it, at least for aces over.
Correct.
Flopped flush w/ 4 cards to the RF. Go for the RF?
Correct.
4 cards to a RF, with one of them paired, ie KH, QH, JH, JC, AH. Dump the JC?
Correct.
3 cards to a RF, one of them paired, KC,QC,10C,QH, 6D. Dump QH & 6D?
Wrong. The bonus pay for all quads makes the pair of queens the best hold. All of these answers can be found in any one of the software packages available ... Winpoker, FVP, VPfW, etc.
Flopped full house that is either Aces, Deuces, Threes or Fours over, ie AAA66, 22299, 33355 etc. Keep the respective trips and go for the higher payout quads, with the fallback that worse case you have the 15 unit trips and potential to draw another pair as well if you miss the quad draw. Dumb play?
Hold the Aces but keep the FH with the low ones. However, if the FH only paid 7 as in some nickel machines then keep all the trips.
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vpguy3
- Senior Member
- Posts: 116
- Joined: Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:01 am
Listen to shadowman, I have found him to be one of the most knowledgeable resources on the forum. I appreciate your posts shadowman...Thanks.
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videofan
- Forum Newbie
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2007 6:03 pm
Shadow, Mike et al, the machines I play at the local indian casino are 9/6 for DDB. thanks for the feedback.
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mout
- Forum Newbie
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 2:38 pm
ya always geaux for the royal, uless dealt trip Aces......a pair of aces with another pair, hold the aces............and yes a paying pair with four to the royal is tempting, but it might be your lucky day
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iluvsummer
- Forum Rookie
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:00 pm
How often will you be dealt a full house aces up on ddb i think it is worth the chance to go for the quad aces,you might even get the kicker for even a bigger win.Just my opinion.I am not an expert and my bank account proves it.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
How often will you be dealt a full house aces up on ddb i think it is worth the chance to go for the quad aces,you might even get the kicker for even a bigger win.Just my opinion.I am not an expert and my bank account proves it.
You are correct. In DDB and many other bonus games the best expected return is to hold only the 3 aces.
You are correct. In DDB and many other bonus games the best expected return is to hold only the 3 aces.
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oej719
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 5:46 pm
[QUOTE=oej719]Rob,
I have never seen one of your W2G's.
P.S. In the last few days I have read all of your website. The strategy's make sense but give none of the Special Plays I hear so much reference to. Seems like for it to work a person needs all the info not just increase denomination and game viotility. Why do you not provide the special plays? What took you so long to find this forum?
1. I will gladly meet you and show whatever you want. I do that quite often, although it gets tiring. Posting them is not a productive endeavor for reasons I mentioned earlier. Also, did you ever ask Dancer to see his 110 $5 or greater RF W2G's he writes about? If not, why not?
2. The special plays that deviate from optimal play are not and cannot be listed in the practical sense. There's a total of around 1700, and many of them are variable use plays, i.e., they may be used one way in one denomination, game or in a confirmed "hot" cycle and another depending on where I'm at in my session goal or yearly win goal attainment--or a combination of any or all of the above. It is something I spend lots of hours talking to people face-to-face about, and i have no problem doing so.
3. I visited this forum because a member who receives my FREE e-newsletter told me there was someone called shadowman who was bad-mouthing me without reason. It's always interesting to see why. I've never been to this site before that.[/QUOTE]
Rob,
I can't just go to vegas to meet and try to see if something is workable or not. How do you keep 1700 special plays in your head? Do you take notes or cheat sheets with you?
Is there a way for someone to get a machine out of the cold cycle as you describe?
And no I have not asked Dancer to show proof, because I am not interested in 1-2%. Frankly anyone can get lucky once. Yours seems like a plan where as one can win on a regular basis. I have worked your single play stratagy's on paper and it works because when you are down by a certain amount and when you hit most quads you recover most or all, plus if you have cash outs you can be ahead. But still the special plays are missing.
I have played on this site with your system only using Dancer's strategy cards(since I don't know your special plays) and bingo - its works. It may take going thru 3 or 4 denominations, but it happens.
The cycles and special plays keep me from risking real money though.
I have never seen one of your W2G's.
P.S. In the last few days I have read all of your website. The strategy's make sense but give none of the Special Plays I hear so much reference to. Seems like for it to work a person needs all the info not just increase denomination and game viotility. Why do you not provide the special plays? What took you so long to find this forum?
1. I will gladly meet you and show whatever you want. I do that quite often, although it gets tiring. Posting them is not a productive endeavor for reasons I mentioned earlier. Also, did you ever ask Dancer to see his 110 $5 or greater RF W2G's he writes about? If not, why not?
2. The special plays that deviate from optimal play are not and cannot be listed in the practical sense. There's a total of around 1700, and many of them are variable use plays, i.e., they may be used one way in one denomination, game or in a confirmed "hot" cycle and another depending on where I'm at in my session goal or yearly win goal attainment--or a combination of any or all of the above. It is something I spend lots of hours talking to people face-to-face about, and i have no problem doing so.
3. I visited this forum because a member who receives my FREE e-newsletter told me there was someone called shadowman who was bad-mouthing me without reason. It's always interesting to see why. I've never been to this site before that.[/QUOTE]
Rob,
I can't just go to vegas to meet and try to see if something is workable or not. How do you keep 1700 special plays in your head? Do you take notes or cheat sheets with you?
Is there a way for someone to get a machine out of the cold cycle as you describe?
And no I have not asked Dancer to show proof, because I am not interested in 1-2%. Frankly anyone can get lucky once. Yours seems like a plan where as one can win on a regular basis. I have worked your single play stratagy's on paper and it works because when you are down by a certain amount and when you hit most quads you recover most or all, plus if you have cash outs you can be ahead. But still the special plays are missing.
I have played on this site with your system only using Dancer's strategy cards(since I don't know your special plays) and bingo - its works. It may take going thru 3 or 4 denominations, but it happens.
The cycles and special plays keep me from risking real money though.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
- Posts: 3587
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
The cycles and special plays keep me from risking real money though.
Good plan.
Also, I'd like for you to show us how you worked out Rob's single play strategy. If I've missed something I'd like to know about it.
In the mean time I thought a quote from "Video Poker - The Face of Pain" by Shepherd King might be applicable. This gentlemen wrote a book about his attempts at finding secret winning "strategies" and detecting "cycles" in VP.
"As we left the casino, I put my arm around her and said, "I guess it's time we did something about this nightmare. Do you still have that list of meetings for Gamblers Anonymous?'"
Good plan.
Also, I'd like for you to show us how you worked out Rob's single play strategy. If I've missed something I'd like to know about it.
In the mean time I thought a quote from "Video Poker - The Face of Pain" by Shepherd King might be applicable. This gentlemen wrote a book about his attempts at finding secret winning "strategies" and detecting "cycles" in VP.
"As we left the casino, I put my arm around her and said, "I guess it's time we did something about this nightmare. Do you still have that list of meetings for Gamblers Anonymous?'"
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