Guilty- Lose the Evidence

[edog743]

Mr Kneeland ,you are probably going to take this the wrong way, but are you here to give sage advice. Or would I be more accurate thinking you are here to pimp your show and your book?

[backsider]

I'm not talking about pros just me and other normal players. Can you understand how very disingenuous it is of someone to claim winning doesn't matter as long as you play with an edge? It's not whether or not you win it's how you play the game? Are you sure you gamble for real money? Mindset doesn't mean nothing when we play vp. There's no philosophy, psychology, anthropology or anything else going on when we play. If I ever came home from gambling and told my wife "honey, I played with an enormous 3% edge today, I got a ton of points and the machine just felt so good because it was I who had the advantage over IT, bbbbut I lost $350 on it"  HOLY COW, I'd better get outta the room fast! I'm sorry sometimes I just don't get you.

[doris13]

even if i had a million to blow i would not be happy with a losing session just because i played with an edge.

[EDC1977]

  I don't know about y'all but let me give you my take on things. I've been doing this vp thing about 15 yrs now but didn't really start playing with strategy til the turn of the century. I'm a recreational player from southern Calif. Every last penny spent goes towards entertainment/enjoyment. I'm not playing to earn a living. Just enjoying playing a game where I have more of an edge over the RNG. Mr Kneeland, factor in things like RFB, driving around town, shows, movies, attractions for the kids etc. and you get a much different perspective. If I go home even or slightly less than what I left the house with, I'm ecstatic. Higher gas prices don't make the picture any rosier. For me anyways, it truly is entertainment value. RF's and other big hands are a bonus for me and learning strategy put me in a better position to attain those hits. I understand randomness, variance swings etc. but there's still an element of luck involved cuz you have to hit that deal/draw at the exact nanosecond for positive results. No amount of training can change that. Just understand that not everyone here is an AP, nor do they strive to be.

[New2vp]

[QUOTE=doris13]frank,i went with $1500 for a 2 night stay.i came home with $1200.i am a very happy camper.
 I second that. Many times I've been down a thou and just before leaving I won maybe $800. THAT makes me happy and i check my trip off as successful. Frank, seriously, where did you get this quote from? (you did say none of these were yours) Were you playing with an edge? If so, you should be happy with your trip regardless of whether or not you won or lost. if I go to a casino for a weekend and play fpdw at the Palms, and I come home losing $350, what can possibly make me happy about that? i played with that edge they give you, but so what? I, like probably every gambler out there, wants to win and if we don't, what game we were playing ends up as irrelevant. Wouldn't you agree with that concept?[/QUOTE]Your logic is a bit difficult to follow here.  You second what doris said meaning you evidently think she is right to be happy losing $300 even though she might not have been playing with an edge.  Yet you say you would be unhappy losing $350 when you are playing with an edge.  I don't suppose the difference of $50 is the threshold that would make you unhappy, so you would just be happier when you are NOT playing with an edge?!?I see nothing wrong with one concept or the other, but you really can't have it both ways.  If you think it is all right for people to be happy paying for their entertainment, surely it must also be okay for people to lose once in a while on the way to an average outcome that results in more dollars won than lost.

[Frank Kneeland]

Mr Kneeland ,you are probably going to take this the wrong way, but are you here to give sage advice. Or would I be more accurate thinking you are here to pimp your show and your book?The wrong way? You doubt my motives. I don't see anything wrong with that. I think it's a great idea to doubt as much as possible in life. People should doubt a LOT more. As far as these two possible goals, can I answer,  "none of the above". Posting is just something I do for fun. I don't have a goal. If you knew me personally, convincing you I have no goals would be an easy sell. If all you know of me is through my forum posts it would be extremely easy for you to think otherwise. No offense taken.Sometimes I post because I don't understand how non-pros think, and I need the exchanges to better understand the non-pro mentality. I have learned a lot by posting. So instead of trying to offer sage advice I'm actually trying to accumulate it.Most recently backsider taught me an important piece of etiquette (for pros)  that I have now taken to heart. And then once in a while a comment strikes me as so odd, that I just feel compelled to say something on the off chance that my words might help someone that needs it. I'm also perfectly happy to fade some criticism as long as I feel I'm reaching somebody.Last week I had an incredible success as a result of a vpFREE post. I can't discuss the particulars because it would violate confidentiality. Lets just say they had a gambling problem and now they are getting the help they need.As a person with a book and a radio show, it isn't going to be possible for me to convince you I'm not "pimping" as you put it. The only thing that might do that would be meeting me and getting to know me. The offer is always open.~FK

[Frank Kneeland]

I'm not talking about pros just me and other normal players. Can you understand how very disingenuous it is of someone to claim winning doesn't matter as long as you play with an edge? It's not whether or not you win it's how you play the game? Are you sure you gamble for real money? Mindset doesn't mean nothing when we play vp. There's no philosophy, psychology, anthropology or anything else going on when we play. If I ever came home from gambling and told my wife "honey, I played with an enormous 3% edge today, I got a ton of points and the machine just felt so good because it was I who had the advantage over IT, bbbbut I lost $350 on it"  HOLY COW, I'd better get outta the room fast! I'm sorry sometimes I just don't get you.Look, don't stress about the fact that you don't see it from my POV. As I said in my previous post we think too differently.It might amuse you to know that when I had a wife, I came home and bragged to her on more than one occasion about a huge edge I had found. My results were never discussed. In fact during our two year relationship she never once inquired as to how I had done on any given day. I did have her help me file taxes one year and she asked me if my job was stressful? I think I said, "not usually".During the year she did ask me a few times if I was doing well and I said yes. It just wasn't anything we talked about. She understood that the day to day was meaningless. It is as hard for me to understand you, as it is for you to understand me.Oh one thing you said I said, "winning doesn't matter as long as you play with an edge?"That's not exactly right. I meant, "short term results don't matter as long as you play with an edge". Let me ask you one question: If you lost $350 a day every day, but hit $4,000+ Jackpots at least 3 times a month, are you saying your wife would be upset? You'd be netting about $2,000 a month in profit. I don't see how that's anything to get upset about.~FK

[Frank Kneeland]

Just understand that not everyone here is an AP, nor do they strive to be.I am well aware of that fact. If you read my entire original post you'll see I mentioned that I only posted the info for the tiny fraction of people that might find the information useful. Even so, my original post was non-partisan and had nothing to do with AP play vs recreational. It had to do with a psychological/physiological phenomenon which can effect pros and non-pros alike...everyone in fact.It's really good stuff to know about even if you don't gamble.~FK

[Frank Kneeland]

even if i had a million to blow i would not be happy with a losing session just because i played with an edge.If I understand you, then you have a very bizarre way of looking at things. Are you saying if you were ahead 1 million dollars in casinos overall, you would be unhappy about leaving your house and having one bad day that barely effects your life time earn?I don't even know how to respond to that.Of course I don't really understand what you mean by "a session". When thinking about how I'm doing, I take into consideration every hand I have ever played since day 1 in a casino. I'm quite pleased with my results."my session" is still ongoing.~FK

[backsider]

[QUOTE=backsider]
[QUOTE=doris13]frank,i went with $1500 for a 2 night stay.i came home with $1200.i am a very happy camper.
 I second that. Many times I've been down a thou and just before leaving I won maybe $800. THAT makes me happy and i check my trip off as successful. Frank, seriously, where did you get this quote from? (you did say none of these were yours) Were you playing with an edge? If so, you should be happy with your trip regardless of whether or not you won or lost. if I go to a casino for a weekend and play fpdw at the Palms, and I come home losing $350, what can possibly make me happy about that? i played with that edge they give you, but so what? I, like probably every gambler out there, wants to win and if we don't, what game we were playing ends up as irrelevant. Wouldn't you agree with that concept?[/QUOTE]Your logic is a bit difficult to follow here.  You second what doris said meaning you evidently think she is right to be happy losing $300 even though she might not have been playing with an edge.  Yet you say you would be unhappy losing $350 when you are playing with an edge.  I don't suppose the difference of $50 is the threshold that would make you unhappy, so you would just be happier when you are NOT playing with an edge?!?I see nothing wrong with one concept or the other, but you really can't have it both ways.  If you think it is all right for people to be happy paying for their entertainment, surely it must also be okay for people to lose once in a while on the way to an average outcome that results in more dollars won than lost.
[/QUOTE]
 You didn't follow my post very well which explains your confusion. No one's going to be happy losing instead of winning, and it doesn't matter if they play with an edge or don't. But, if a player is losing a lot and then makes a near complete comeback just before quitting for the trip, it's not a happy feeling as much as it is a good feeling. What loser wouldn't feel better after that? But a loss is still a loss, and 2 weeks later if you look back at your result from playing with an edge, no one would be happy about it.