Rob,
I'm not sure I would recognize it, because at Taj I'm getting to know the attendants pretty well. I do tip on every handpay though. The ones I know are very friendly, offer to hold my machine when I want to go to the restroom or get change, and get my handpays lightning quick. I know that attendants would still do this for people who didn't tip, but I don't even have to ask them to hold the machine for me, they just offer it because they are getting to know me.
Mike
Hog Heaven - Biker Bucks!
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njmike37
- Senior Member
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babybubba
- Senior Member
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Rob,
I'm not sure I would recognize it, because at Taj I'm getting to know the attendants pretty well. I do tip on every handpay though. The ones I know are very friendly, offer to hold my machine when I want to go to the restroom or get change, and get my handpays lightning quick. I know that attendants would still do this for people who didn't tip, but I don't even have to ask them to hold the machine for me, they just offer it because they are getting to know me.
Mike
That's all well and good if you enjoy doing that, but isn't one of the lessons on optimal play to not worry about which machine you're playing? Or are you one of my followers and subscribe to the truth about hot & cold cycles? I can see where more important differences lie however. You seem to like to interact with the employees, you likely have hosts you enjoy talking to, and you probably feel comfortable doing all that. I OTOH never speak to anyone in the casino unless I absolutely must, I never talk to hosts because they're only interested in emptying our pockets, and I'm always too busy concentrating on working my strategy as close to perfection as I possibly can. I prefer to show I don't care about the floor people and i don't care if they care about me or not.
I just read a Bob Dancer article today where he felt cheated by some promotion and made a whiny fuss out of it with employees until he got most of what he thought he should get. That's typical of players who play for points and benefits and not the money. In other words, it's a loser's strategy and players like that are always angry whether they're walking in or out of the casino because they lose. I associate the same type of behaviour to people trying to make friends on the floor while they're supposed to be concentrating on making money.
I'm not sure I would recognize it, because at Taj I'm getting to know the attendants pretty well. I do tip on every handpay though. The ones I know are very friendly, offer to hold my machine when I want to go to the restroom or get change, and get my handpays lightning quick. I know that attendants would still do this for people who didn't tip, but I don't even have to ask them to hold the machine for me, they just offer it because they are getting to know me.
Mike
That's all well and good if you enjoy doing that, but isn't one of the lessons on optimal play to not worry about which machine you're playing? Or are you one of my followers and subscribe to the truth about hot & cold cycles? I can see where more important differences lie however. You seem to like to interact with the employees, you likely have hosts you enjoy talking to, and you probably feel comfortable doing all that. I OTOH never speak to anyone in the casino unless I absolutely must, I never talk to hosts because they're only interested in emptying our pockets, and I'm always too busy concentrating on working my strategy as close to perfection as I possibly can. I prefer to show I don't care about the floor people and i don't care if they care about me or not.
I just read a Bob Dancer article today where he felt cheated by some promotion and made a whiny fuss out of it with employees until he got most of what he thought he should get. That's typical of players who play for points and benefits and not the money. In other words, it's a loser's strategy and players like that are always angry whether they're walking in or out of the casino because they lose. I associate the same type of behaviour to people trying to make friends on the floor while they're supposed to be concentrating on making money.
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njmike37
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:51 pm
Rob,
I am not a professional video poker player. I enjoy playing VP, but would never commit all of my time to doing it. I also play poker, which is the game that I am concentrating most of my time towards. Of course I don't want to lose at VP, so I try to play optimal strategies to give myself an edge over most people.
As for the worrying about what machine I'm playing, when I am playing STP, which is what I play a lot of, there are only 10 of them in the entire casino, and 2 of them are at a higher denomination than I am comfortable at, so yes, I don't want to get up and come back to see the machine I was playing is now taken.
As for hot/cold cycles, they are natural. Everyone experiences them, and I'm not concernced about them as I concentrate on the hand that I am playing. I sometimes play against strategy if I feel that I have a chance at a big hit (especially on STP when the multiplier is a big one.)
And as for interaction with the employees, like I said, I am not a pro.. I enjoy the interactions with the employees. I do have a host and do call her when I want a room or something special.
I can understand from someone like you who plays solely for the money and not rewards, but you have to understand that not everyone in this forum is a professional, and many of us enjoy the little perks that come with playing VP.
Mike
I am not a professional video poker player. I enjoy playing VP, but would never commit all of my time to doing it. I also play poker, which is the game that I am concentrating most of my time towards. Of course I don't want to lose at VP, so I try to play optimal strategies to give myself an edge over most people.
As for the worrying about what machine I'm playing, when I am playing STP, which is what I play a lot of, there are only 10 of them in the entire casino, and 2 of them are at a higher denomination than I am comfortable at, so yes, I don't want to get up and come back to see the machine I was playing is now taken.
As for hot/cold cycles, they are natural. Everyone experiences them, and I'm not concernced about them as I concentrate on the hand that I am playing. I sometimes play against strategy if I feel that I have a chance at a big hit (especially on STP when the multiplier is a big one.)
And as for interaction with the employees, like I said, I am not a pro.. I enjoy the interactions with the employees. I do have a host and do call her when I want a room or something special.
I can understand from someone like you who plays solely for the money and not rewards, but you have to understand that not everyone in this forum is a professional, and many of us enjoy the little perks that come with playing VP.
Mike
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babybubba
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:18 pm
May I point out that optimal strategies are presumed to give the player an edge over machines and not others.
Is STP Super Times Play that I see on this site? Just some advice: All these fancy games you see coming out aren't coming out for the benefit of the player. And please be honest and say you are playing vp for the money. We all do and the benefits should have nothing to do with the quest to win. I get more comps/freebies/gifts/free-play per dollar played than anyone I know because I know how to manipulate & cheat the entire system far more than even what you read from the famous names. Yet I play waaaay less hours overall and I NEVER speak to a host. So there is a way to get all that stuff, enjoy yourself, and win big too. That's what I teach when I'm with others.
Is STP Super Times Play that I see on this site? Just some advice: All these fancy games you see coming out aren't coming out for the benefit of the player. And please be honest and say you are playing vp for the money. We all do and the benefits should have nothing to do with the quest to win. I get more comps/freebies/gifts/free-play per dollar played than anyone I know because I know how to manipulate & cheat the entire system far more than even what you read from the famous names. Yet I play waaaay less hours overall and I NEVER speak to a host. So there is a way to get all that stuff, enjoy yourself, and win big too. That's what I teach when I'm with others.
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njmike37
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:51 pm
Rob,
Yes, STP is Super Times Pay, and according to Wizard of Odds, the 6th coin bet is actually a good one..
"
Super Times Pay is an IGT video poker variant in which the game sometimes randomly multiplies the win for the price of a sixth coin. Based on the games I observed at the Suncoast casino on September 13, 2004, the rule screen said the multiplier appears once every 15 games and the average multiplier was 4.05. So the average win after the multiplier is 20.33% more, making the sixth coin a marginally good bet.
To get the return of any pay table simply look up the return in a standard video poker game and then multiply by 1.00278."
I've also had more handpays playing the same amount of VP playing STP versus regular multi-line games.
Of course I'm in VP for money, who plays with intent to lose? But I'm not in it for a sole source of income such as people like yourself.
Mike
Yes, STP is Super Times Pay, and according to Wizard of Odds, the 6th coin bet is actually a good one..
"
Super Times Pay is an IGT video poker variant in which the game sometimes randomly multiplies the win for the price of a sixth coin. Based on the games I observed at the Suncoast casino on September 13, 2004, the rule screen said the multiplier appears once every 15 games and the average multiplier was 4.05. So the average win after the multiplier is 20.33% more, making the sixth coin a marginally good bet.
To get the return of any pay table simply look up the return in a standard video poker game and then multiply by 1.00278."
I've also had more handpays playing the same amount of VP playing STP versus regular multi-line games.
Of course I'm in VP for money, who plays with intent to lose? But I'm not in it for a sole source of income such as people like yourself.
Mike
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nathananalex
- Forum Newbie
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Its certainly your right not to tip.Just as its your right to eat in a fine restaurant and not tip.
Often players "win" large amounts in a "jackpot" but are still losers.So it would be understandable if they did nott leave a tip.
Employees"hoping" to get a tip would never "intimidate" you.They may be extra nice and pay special attention to you.
Not tipping may make you feelsuperior in some way.
I think it's the bragging about it that makes you look cheap and rude.
Yes,I am a casino employee and we would never make you feel "intimidated".
I just feel sorry for the family of someone so proud to be a cheap **&*&*
Often players "win" large amounts in a "jackpot" but are still losers.So it would be understandable if they did nott leave a tip.
Employees"hoping" to get a tip would never "intimidate" you.They may be extra nice and pay special attention to you.
Not tipping may make you feelsuperior in some way.
I think it's the bragging about it that makes you look cheap and rude.
Yes,I am a casino employee and we would never make you feel "intimidated".
I just feel sorry for the family of someone so proud to be a cheap **&*&*
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babybubba
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:18 pm
Its certainly your right not to tip.Just as its your right to eat in a fine restaurant and not tip.
Often players "win" large amounts in a "jackpot" but are still losers.So it would be understandable if they did nott leave a tip.
Employees"hoping" to get a tip would never "intimidate" you.They may be extra nice and pay special attention to you.
Not tipping may make you feelsuperior in some way.
I think it's the bragging about it that makes you look cheap and rude.
Yes,I am a casino employee and we would never make you feel "intimidated".
I just feel sorry for the family of someone so proud to be a cheap **&*&*
You may want to gather a wee bit more casino experience before your next post. Winning or losing has zero to do with whether or not I tip. I don't tip because no one who hand pays me deserves it. What more did they do than the clerk at the bank who has to spend 5-10 minutes counting out my $17,200 withdrawal every time I get ready to go to Nevada to play my single-play strategy, and what more do they do than the clerk at Walgreens? But most of all, what do you think the casino employees are doing when on an $8000 Royal they count out $7900 in hundreds then give you the last hundred bucks in four 20's and two 10's? That's not intimidation? Some of the classier places now have eliminated that practice but most casinos still pressure the player with such stupidity.
Often players "win" large amounts in a "jackpot" but are still losers.So it would be understandable if they did nott leave a tip.
Employees"hoping" to get a tip would never "intimidate" you.They may be extra nice and pay special attention to you.
Not tipping may make you feelsuperior in some way.
I think it's the bragging about it that makes you look cheap and rude.
Yes,I am a casino employee and we would never make you feel "intimidated".
I just feel sorry for the family of someone so proud to be a cheap **&*&*
You may want to gather a wee bit more casino experience before your next post. Winning or losing has zero to do with whether or not I tip. I don't tip because no one who hand pays me deserves it. What more did they do than the clerk at the bank who has to spend 5-10 minutes counting out my $17,200 withdrawal every time I get ready to go to Nevada to play my single-play strategy, and what more do they do than the clerk at Walgreens? But most of all, what do you think the casino employees are doing when on an $8000 Royal they count out $7900 in hundreds then give you the last hundred bucks in four 20's and two 10's? That's not intimidation? Some of the classier places now have eliminated that practice but most casinos still pressure the player with such stupidity.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
But most of all, what do you think the casino employees are doing when on an $8000 Royal they count out $7900 in hundreds then give you the last hundred bucks in four 20's and two 10's? That's not intimidation? Some of the classier places now have eliminated that practice but most casinos still pressure the player with such stupidity.
Personally, I consider this a nice gesture making it more convenient for me if I choose to tip.
Personally, I consider this a nice gesture making it more convenient for me if I choose to tip.
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babybubba
- Senior Member
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- Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 9:18 pm
[QUOTE=babybubba] But most of all, what do you think the casino employees are doing when on an $8000 Royal they count out $7900 in hundreds then give you the last hundred bucks in four 20's and two 10's? That's not intimidation? Some of the classier places now have eliminated that practice but most casinos still pressure the player with such stupidity.
Personally, I consider this a nice gesture making it more convenient for me if I choose to tip. [/QUOTE]
What's the chance a gambler at a machine has no 10-'s or 20's in their wallet? There's absolutely no doubt the only reason they do this is because they both want a tip and they've calculated that the probability of getting that tip goes way up. When you add these factors up, most would equate that to financial intimidation. When they pull that stunt on me even though I never tip, I always say "why didn't you just pay me all in hundreds?" That sends the message back their way.
Personally, I consider this a nice gesture making it more convenient for me if I choose to tip. [/QUOTE]
What's the chance a gambler at a machine has no 10-'s or 20's in their wallet? There's absolutely no doubt the only reason they do this is because they both want a tip and they've calculated that the probability of getting that tip goes way up. When you add these factors up, most would equate that to financial intimidation. When they pull that stunt on me even though I never tip, I always say "why didn't you just pay me all in hundreds?" That sends the message back their way.
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shadowman
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:42 pm
What's the chance a gambler at a machine has no 10-'s or 20's in their wallet? There's absolutely no doubt the only reason they do this is because they both want a tip and they've calculated that the probability of getting that tip goes way up. When you add these factors up, most would equate that to financial intimidation. When they pull that stunt on me even though I never tip, I always say "why didn't you just pay me all in hundreds?" That sends the message back their way.
I think this is kind of a "glass half empty/half full" debate. You're looking at the negative side (half empty = intimidation) while others might look at the positive side (half full = convienence).
I get a lot of small hand pays playing certain games. I don't tip on these handpays. I tip on the larger handpays. In both cases I get small bills and a smile from the attendents. I don't feel any intimidation either way.
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