For what it's worth.

[Truth Teller]

TT, I've given you all you need to understand the regs. Although, it's becoming clear your mind won't be changed by mere facts. 
 
If you took a moment to look up the definition of random then you would know that all cards being selected randomly is equivalent to (that means exactly the same as) all hands having an equal chance of occurring. This means your entire last post is invalid. There is no "loophole". Now, pleeeeaaaassssseeee make an effort to UNDERSTAND what is written before posting next time.Hey Shadowman,You've lied, you've distorted, and you've claimed things are in the regs that just ain't there.  IMO, no one around here should trust a word you say...you obviously have some purpose for being here, and it's not for the good of the suck...players playing VP.And now, even after all your other garbage, you're reaching for new depths, attempting to define "random."Since it's clear you are not to be trusted, let's just cut to the bottom line, once again...The regs do not require machines to select combinations equally.  Garbage, like 2-3-6-9-10, can be chosen more often than good hands like A-A-A-2-3, as long as over time, the individual cards are selected somewhat equally (within  5%).Da Shadowman can spin and razzle dazzle all day long, but in the end, the regs still have the same loopholes, no matter how much he huffs and puffs and wants people to believe otherwise.Every single suck...longtime, avid player of VP knows that sometimes you can go through a lot of money on machines that all suck...every single one of them.  Put in a hundred, go through 20+ hands on a dollar machine, and never hit anything besides a couple of single pairs.  Put in more, same crap.  Move, same crap.  Over and over and over.75%.  The minimum required payout, regardless of what paytables display.Approx. equal selection of individual cards, but NOT equal selection of combinations of cards.That's the bottom line.

[shadowman]

The regs do not require machines to select combinations equally.  Garbage, like 2-3-6-9-10, can be chosen more often than good hands like A-A-A-2-3, as long as over time, the individual cards are selected somewhat equally (within  5%).
 
If all cards are selected randomly then all combinations must be selected randomly. You can't have one without the other. You still need to understand the definition of random. Statements like the one above are tantamount to lying. You can't throw out cards without suits. Clearly, the first hand will occur MORE often because there are no duplicates and each card can appear in any suit while the aces are limited. Even a newbie to VP can understand that. So much for being a "truth teller".

Da Shadowman can spin and razzle dazzle all day long, but in the end, the regs still have the same loopholes, no matter how much he huffs and puffs and wants people to believe otherwise.

Every single suck...longtime, avid player of VP knows that sometimes you can go through a lot of money on machines that all suck...every single one of them.  Put in a hundred, go through 20+ hands on a dollar machine, and never hit anything besides a couple of single pairs.  Put in more, same crap.  Move, same crap.  Over and over and over.

75%.  The minimum required payout, regardless of what paytables display.

Approx. equal selection of individual cards, but NOT equal selection of combinations of cards.

That's the bottom line.

 
"Every single ...  longtime ... player" also knows that sometimes you can win lots of money. Win sometimes ... lose sometimes. It all averages out to the expected return of the individual. That is normal. What is obvious is that TT is nothing more than a troll.
 
"That's the bottom line."

 

[pokeherguy]

{"Every single ...  longtime ... player" also knows that sometimes you can win lots of money. Win sometimes ... lose sometimes. It all averages out to the expected return of the individual. That is normal. What is obvious is that TT is nothing more than a troll.
 
"That's the bottom line."}
 
Fact! Heres what I think, there are different ways to play as far as VP goes. You can play the different games, bet any way you like as far as denomination goes, move from machine to machine, go to as many casinos as you like, play any style or stategy you wish but over time the payback will stand true. Over all the years I have played I have been up, down and even, and at times I have been way down but it would always turn around and I believe it always will as long as I am willing to play thru the bad times. At this particular time I just happen to be way up. You cannot win everytime just as you can't lose everytime, the casinos and game manufactures are pretty good at making a profit and keeping the games fair for everyone regardless of what method any serious VP player might use.


 

[shadowman]

Fact! Heres what I think, there are different ways to play as far as VP goes. You can play the different games, bet any way you like as far as denomination goes, move from machine to machine, go to as many casinos as you like, play any style or stategy you wish but over time the payback will stand true. Over all the years I have played I have been up, down and even, and at times I have been way down but it would always turn around and I believe it always will as long as I am willing to play thru the bad times. At this particular time I just happen to be way up. You cannot win everytime just as you can't lose everytime, the casinos and game manufactures are pretty good at making a profit and keeping the games fair for everyone regardless of what method any serious VP player might use. 
 
Right on!
 
I put over a million dollars a year through VP machines (I suspect you put through even more). At 75% payback I would be losing over $250K/year. I couldn't afford even a fraction of that. You really have to wonder why TT would come on here and make claims that everyone knows is impossible.
 

[pokeherguy]

{Every single suck...longtime, avid player of VP knows that sometimes you can go through a lot of money on machines that all suck...every single one of them.  Put in a hundred, go through 20+ hands on a dollar machine, and never hit anything besides a couple of single pairs.  Put in more, same crap.  Move, same crap.  Over and over and over.}






 
What is your point? You can't base the overall results on one single day. This happens to every player sometimes. I have days where thats exactly what happens and I have days where I hit something on almost every machine I play. The last trip I made to Tunica I was losing on every machine I touched for three hours then I hit jackpots on four different machines in a row for $8,800. The next several trips I make may be bad but who knows. Take the good with the bad. If any casino had a payback as low as 75% they would be out of business quickly.
 

[Truth Teller]

[QUOTE=Truth Teller] The regs do not require machines to select combinations equally.  Garbage, like 2-3-6-9-10, can be chosen more often than good hands like A-A-A-2-3, as long as over time, the individual cards are selected somewhat equally (within  5%).
 
If all cards are selected randomly then all combinations must be selected randomly. You can't have one without the other. You still need to understand the definition of random. Statements like the one above are tantamount to lying. You can't throw out cards without suits. Clearly, the first hand will occur MORE often because there are no duplicates and each card can appear in any suit while the aces are limited. Even a newbie to VP can understand that. So much for being a "truth teller". [/QUOTE]We're way beyond ignorance or stupidity now...This is just downright disinformation, and you serve someone's agenda, and it ain't the players'...As I mentioned previously, if one EPROM stored all possible combinations (roughly 2.5 million), and another EPROM stored nothing but crap (let's use 500,000 for this example) hands (with symbols distributed equally within +- 5%), and a random generator picked a number between 1 and 3,000,000, the random generator would choose a "fair" hand 5/6 of the time, and a crap hand 1/6 of the time.The symbols would be distributed equally.The combinations would not be distributed equally.The regs allow this.  The regs do not require combinations to have an equal chance.You know this.  Yet you pretend otherwise.Why?

[Truth Teller]

Let's make this disinformation-proof...Let's use coins.  Let's design a game.Two coins.If you toss them and get 2 heads, you win.If you get anything other than 2 heads, you lose.Let's store these combinations in an EPROM.There are four possible outcomes - HH, HT, TH, TT.Let's add a second EPROM.  Store 2 combinations - HT and TH.We now have 6 possible combinations.Yet the heads and tails have equal chances.Now let's choose a random number from 1 to 6.The random numbers represent the following outcomes:1 - EPROM #1, HH2 - EPROM #1, HT3 - EPROM #1, TH4 - EPROM #1, TT5 - EPROM #2, HT6 - EPROM #2, THSo if our random number generator picks a "1," we get heads-heads, and we win.But if our random number generator picks a 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6, we lose.The chances of winning ARE NOT 1 out of 4, they are 1 out of 6.Yet, the symbols H and T will have an equal chance.THIS IS HOW THEY DO IT FOLKS.AND THE REGS DO NOT STOP THEM.

[royal flush]

if you think that you should never play and get off this and any vp site

[faygo]

if you think that you should never play and get off this and any vp site
 
Amen!

[MikeA]

Assuming that the proposition you put forward is legal, what leads you to believe that it is in fact, the method used by the game developers?  Do you have information other than observed results and speculation?