Having More Fun Playing Negative Games?

[EDC1977]

  Using vpfree2 to locate the game(s) you wish to play was very helpful to me. It located several !00% games for me. I don't know where you might regularly play  but it is quite helpful.

[FloridaPhil]

VPfree2.com is very helpful. However, the best quarter VP game we have been able to find outside of Vegas is 9/6 Jacks which is a 99.544 game with perfect play.  That's good, but not 100%+.  My understanding of Vegas is they give comps, points and something called "cash back" which can bring a 99.5% game over the 100% mark.  Cash back is a term we know nothing about.    The Beau Rivage in Biloxi gives us three nights free any time we want (I value that at around $450) and about $200 in food and other perks, so I guess I should factor that into our winnings.  The pay tables are terrible (7/5 Jacks, 7/5 DDB, Etc.) which is the reason for our denomination changing strategy.  Most trips we can find a way to get out even or with a small loss of about $300-$400 between us.  Those .50 and dollar jackpots are rare, but they really add to our enjoyment and play a big part in our decent results.  We have friends who play regular slots and they most always leave with empty pockets. 

[BillyJoe]

Cash back is a term we know nothing about.    The Beau Rivage in Biloxi gives us three nights free any time we want (I value that at around $450) and about $200 in food and other perks, so I guess I should factor that into our winnings. 
Phil, The Beau is an MGM Int'l property, using the MLife Players Card. As you play, you earn points, which can be converted to FreePlay right at the machine that you are playing. It is not cash, but it spends in the machines.  

[FloridaPhil]

I was told that during my last visit.  I had a bunch of points that I had not redeemed and the lady at the Player's Club explained how they work.   In Dancer's book he talks a lot about cash back.  Can you redeem Vegas "Cash Back" for real cash?

[BillyJoe]

I was told that during my last visit.  I had a bunch of points that I had not redeemed and the lady at the Player's Club explained how they work.   In Dancer's book he talks a lot about cash back.  Can you redeem Vegas "Cash Back" for real cash?
The casinos that I frequent, which are either MGM or Caesars/Harrahs properties, for the most part, give FreePlay rather than actual cash. The only time that I get real cash is when I am reimbursed for my travel expenses. Even in those cases, some properties, like Tunica and New Orleans, are reimbursing travel expenses as FreePlay now rather than actual cash. I still get reimbursed real cash for travel for Las Vegas trips, however.  

[olds442jetaway]

There are a few 100 play machines at Foxwoods in Ct  with 1 cent, 5 cent, 10 cent, and 25 cent denominations in the same machine. This gives me almost infinite possibilities of varying lines played, denominations, and combinations therof. I like to start at the one cent level and progress up not after winning, but after losing a certain number of hands. That way, I only need a few wins with a higher amount played to make up for the many losing hands in the lower denominations. The best percentage I can get on these machines is on 17 7 kings joker poker at the 10 cent level. There are many other games in the same machine as well. My best ever playing this way was being dealt a natural Royal having 12 lines played at the 10 cent level with 5 coins in. That of course more than offset losing at the lower denominations all day. Just pure luck that it hit after 8 hours of losing at the 1 cent and 5 cent level. They don't pay the usual bonus with joker kings on hitting the Royal and pay instead 4,000 coins. Not a big deal in this case.and who knows if  it will ever hit like that again. I just can't sit there all day and play straignt 5 coins on the same  line or number of lines without varying anything. It reminds me too much of regular slots playing that way.

[Vman96]

<DIV style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 10pt">VPfree2.com is very helpful. However, the best quarter VP game we have been able to find outside of Vegas is 9/6 Jacks which is a 99.544 game with perfect play.  That's good, but not 100%+.  My understanding of Vegas is they give comps, points and something called "cash back" which can bring a 99.5% game over the 100% mark.  Cash back is a term we know nothing about.    The Beau Rivage in Biloxi gives us three nights free any time we want (I value that at around $450) and about $200 in food and other perks, so I guess I should factor that into our winnings.  The pay tables are terrible (7/5 Jacks, 7/5 DDB, Etc.) which is the reason for our denomination changing strategy.  Most trips we can find a way to get out even or with a small loss of about $300-$400 between us.  Those .50 and dollar jackpots are rare, but they really add to our enjoyment and play a big part in our decent results.  We have friends who play regular slots and they most always leave with empty pockets. 

You're not looking hard enough, or far away enough from Florida. 99.96% return machines (DDB or DW) exists at Tunica Roadhouse for quarters. But for a FL resident, it's probably a much longer trip to Tunica.

[FloridaPhil]

I agree with you that playing 5 coins at the same denomination all day is boring.  Personally, I like to change games and denominations.  My goal is to leave with at least $250 in white tickets per session.  Most days I can make something work. I never thought about moving up in denomination after a number of "bad hands"... I'll have to think about that some more.  I don't think it matters when you move up as long as you do at least some of the hands.  It's impossible to find any pattern that works long term, believe me I've tried... 

[olds442jetaway]

That is for sure that nothing works in the long run or the casinos would be OOB. All I know is that in any given day, you will have some winning hands and more losing hands. So when my losing hands seem to be running way more than the average, I like to up my bet a little at a time until the tide shifts in my favor. That way I need much fewer winning hands at the higher level to offset the many losers at the lower level. For example, in the long run, you should at least win double your bet in JOB about every 4 hands, about every 5 hands in Joker kings, and about every 6 hands in Deuces Wild. It runs up to every 8-10 hands in the more difficult games like DDB etc. etc. etc. Since my sessions tend to be long 6-12 hours or more, I can see a pattern develop. You need a big sample for this to work at all. Anyway, things tend toward working their way back toward the average over time. It is easy to figure out how many hands you go on the average before a win from the various paytables. Just add up the decimals  for the various winning hands which if I remember for job is around .24. Divide that into 1 and you will know how many hands you have to play on the average before a win. Beware, as we all know, there are long streaks (usually losing). If you are hitting every 2 hands or so on job for 10 or 15 minutes straight, it is usually time to hit and run when that streak is over. Good luck if anyone tries this. It is hard to practice this method on this site due to not being able to play more than 5 coins at a time. You could try it  on the 100 play games by going up on the lines instead which will still increase your bet.

[BillyJoe]

That is for sure that nothing works in the long run or the casinos would be OOB. All I know is that in any given day, you will have some winning hands and more losing hands. So when my losing hands seem to be running way more than the average, I like to up my bet a little at a time until the tide shifts in my favor. That way I need much fewer winning hands at the higher level to offset the many losers at the lower level. For example, in the long run, you should at least win double your bet in JOB about every 4 hands, about every 5 hands in Joker kings, and about every 6 hands in Deuces Wild. It runs up to every 8-10 hands in the more difficult games like DDB etc. etc. etc. Since my sessions tend to be long 6-12 hours or more, I can see a pattern develop. You need a big sample for this to work at all. Anyway, things tend toward working their way back toward the average over time. It is easy to figure out how many hands you go on the average before a win from the various paytables. Just add up the decimals  for the various winning hands which if I remember for job is around .24. Divide that into 1 and you will know how many hands you have to play on the average before a win. Beware, as we all know, there are long streaks (usually losing). If you are hitting every 2 hands or so on job for 10 or 15 minutes straight, it is usually time to hit and run when that streak is over. Good luck if anyone tries this. It is hard to practice this method on this site due to not being able to play more than 5 coins at a time. You could try it  on the 100 play games by going up on the lines instead which will still increase your bet.
OK, Olds, let me see if I understand your approach. For a given game and paytable, you believe that, when you hit a 'soft' run, a stronger run is due, since "things tend toward working their way back toward the average over time". 
 
I would agree, if you make Time = Infinity..