[QUOTE=FloridaPhil] The fact is playing max coins on a negative machine causes you to lose more money.
This is true for many machines, but not those that are very close to 100%. If you were able to play NSUD (99.73% max) for example, or 40/10/6 DDB (99.96% max), you would lose more money on average by playing 1 coin. But for all the machines you encounter in Florida, yes, playing one coin loses less on average vs. 5-coins at the same denomination.[/QUOTE]
Sounded pretty bad when I hear from Phil that 8/5 DDB is as good as it gets in Florida. I checked out VPFree2 for paytables in Hard Rock Tampa and other areas in the Gulf.
http://www.vpfree2.com/casino/hard-rock-tampa
It seems like they have a really good game in 8/5 Bonus Poker where all quads pay 35 credits for an ER of 99.66%' almost near 100%. Wonder if Phil will consider trying that game, only downside being it requires $1/$2/$5 denomination.
Craziness Continues...
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alpax
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FloridaPhil
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Tampa has expanded their high limit slot area in the last few weeks. I had been avoiding it previously because they were blocking the coin play buttons and $10 a hand was too rich for my wallet. The new machines do not have the button blocked, so I've been playing there when I'm ahead. 9/6 Jacks is available at $2 and up. Deuces is 4/4/125 in the whole casino starting at 50 cents. I was down in Miami a few weeks ago and I noticed that they had increased the odds on some of the machines. You really need to scout these machines to find the good pay tables. Video poker is very popular with Florida players. Most players are new to the game or don't have a clue, but every now and then I'll run into someone who knows what's going on. Some of the most knowledgeable players I have met have been women and they are really passionate about video poker.
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Vman96
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It seems like they have a really good game in 8/5 Bonus Poker where all quads pay 35 credits for an ER of 99.66%' almost near 100%. Wonder if Phil will consider trying that game, only downside being it requires $1/$2/$5 denomination.
35/8/5 bonus is my go-to game at my local as it's on the machine that typically gives me 0.5% bounceback along with the occasional "free room". But since I haven't hit a royal on it. I'm probably down over $500 on it on quarters in quite sporadic play (somewhere between 10k and 20k hands). But I've used a half dozen free nights at least. It is pretty much like JoB except quad droughts hurt a tiny bit more.
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alpax
- Video Poker Master
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[QUOTE=alpax]
It seems like they have a really good game in 8/5 Bonus Poker where all quads pay 35 credits for an ER of 99.66%' almost near 100%. Wonder if Phil will consider trying that game, only downside being it requires $1/$2/$5 denomination.
35/8/5 bonus is my go-to game at my local as it's on the machine that typically gives me 0.5% bounceback along with the occasional "free room". But since I haven't hit a royal on it. I'm probably down over $500 on it on quarters in quite sporadic play (somewhere between 10k and 20k hands). But I've used a half dozen free nights at least. It is pretty much like JoB except quad droughts hurt a tiny bit more. [/QUOTE]
I know exactly how much a quad drought can hurt in any Bonus games (Bonus Deluxe/DDB). Not landing at least 2 quads per 1000 hands can be devastating. But believing Dancer's perspective on losing where you will win it right back soon, it does balances out time to time if more quads are hit the next time around. I am still down a bit since I also have not a royal in Bonus Deluxe and JoB, I know and accept that it takes patience.
Turns out single coin and max coin play for 9-6 Bonus Deluxe have about similar expected loss rate at $7.42 per 500 $1 single coin bets and $8.95 per 500 $1 max coin bets. DDB is the other game that is feasible to me to use Phil's strategy, but Phil does not entirely recommend it since a majority play will end up in even money or a loss.
It seems like they have a really good game in 8/5 Bonus Poker where all quads pay 35 credits for an ER of 99.66%' almost near 100%. Wonder if Phil will consider trying that game, only downside being it requires $1/$2/$5 denomination.
35/8/5 bonus is my go-to game at my local as it's on the machine that typically gives me 0.5% bounceback along with the occasional "free room". But since I haven't hit a royal on it. I'm probably down over $500 on it on quarters in quite sporadic play (somewhere between 10k and 20k hands). But I've used a half dozen free nights at least. It is pretty much like JoB except quad droughts hurt a tiny bit more. [/QUOTE]
I know exactly how much a quad drought can hurt in any Bonus games (Bonus Deluxe/DDB). Not landing at least 2 quads per 1000 hands can be devastating. But believing Dancer's perspective on losing where you will win it right back soon, it does balances out time to time if more quads are hit the next time around. I am still down a bit since I also have not a royal in Bonus Deluxe and JoB, I know and accept that it takes patience.
Turns out single coin and max coin play for 9-6 Bonus Deluxe have about similar expected loss rate at $7.42 per 500 $1 single coin bets and $8.95 per 500 $1 max coin bets. DDB is the other game that is feasible to me to use Phil's strategy, but Phil does not entirely recommend it since a majority play will end up in even money or a loss.
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olds442jetaway
- Video Poker Master
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Tampa has expanded their high limit slot area in the last few weeks. I had been avoiding it previously because they were blocking the coin play buttons and $10 a hand was too rich for my wallet. The new machines do not have the button blocked, so I've been playing there when I'm ahead. 9/6 Jacks is available at $2 and up. Deuces is 4/4/125 in the whole casino starting at 50 cents. I was down in Miami a few weeks ago and I noticed that they had increased the odds on some of the machines. You really need to scout these machines to find the good pay tables. Video poker is very popular with Florida players. Most players are new to the game or don't have a clue, but every now and then I'll run into someone who knows what's going on. Some of the most knowledgeable players I have met have been women and they are really passionate about video poker.
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I hope for their man's sake, they are passionate about other things too! Seriously, I find the same thing up here in Ct. Most of the vp players up here tend to be in our age bracket give or take ten years. I am going to give one coin another shot this Friday. Hopefully I won't have another run of 23 duds at max bet.
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I hope for their man's sake, they are passionate about other things too! Seriously, I find the same thing up here in Ct. Most of the vp players up here tend to be in our age bracket give or take ten years. I am going to give one coin another shot this Friday. Hopefully I won't have another run of 23 duds at max bet.
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FloridaPhil
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:28 am
Stop by the high limit slots and give $20 a shot at a one coin $5 machine. You might be surprised what happens. The high limit machines are programmed to give up more jackpots when playing single coin. Don't tell anyone and keep it between us...
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alpax
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 4:42 pm
Stop by the high limit slots and give $20 a shot at a one coin $5 machine. You might be surprised what happens. The high limit machines are programmed to give up more jackpots when playing single coin. Don't tell anyone and keep it between us...
I'll give that a shot as well and report back what happens.
I'll give that a shot as well and report back what happens.
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Vman96
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[QUOTE=Vman96] [QUOTE=alpax]
It seems like they have a really good game in 8/5 Bonus Poker where all quads pay 35 credits for an ER of 99.66%' almost near 100%. Wonder if Phil will consider trying that game, only downside being it requires $1/$2/$5 denomination.
35/8/5 bonus is my go-to game at my local as it's on the machine that typically gives me 0.5% bounceback along with the occasional "free room". But since I haven't hit a royal on it. I'm probably down over $500 on it on quarters in quite sporadic play (somewhere between 10k and 20k hands). But I've used a half dozen free nights at least. It is pretty much like JoB except quad droughts hurt a tiny bit more. [/QUOTE]
I know exactly how much a quad drought can hurt in any Bonus games (Bonus Deluxe/DDB). Not landing at least 2 quads per 1000 hands can be devastating. But believing Dancer's perspective on losing where you will win it right back soon, it does balances out time to time if more quads are hit the next time around. I am still down a bit since I also have not a royal in Bonus Deluxe and JoB, I know and accept that it takes patience.
Turns out single coin and max coin play for 9-6 Bonus Deluxe have about similar expected loss rate at $7.42 per 500 $1 single coin bets and $8.95 per 500 $1 max coin bets. DDB is the other game that is feasible to me to use Phil's strategy, but Phil does not entirely recommend it since a majority play will end up in even money or a loss.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind though that the casino should give you more comps with a max bet vs. a min. bet though. So even 9/6 JoB is probably worth a max bet if you can afford it (and given your previous thread, you should be able to for quarters at least). 99% or less, I see the benefits to Phil's system given his goals vs. his bankroll. If you want to try Phil's system with DDB, I'm thinking you'll need to move up with any 3 of a kind. But it will be a very feast/famine game because DDB is that way anyway.
It seems like they have a really good game in 8/5 Bonus Poker where all quads pay 35 credits for an ER of 99.66%' almost near 100%. Wonder if Phil will consider trying that game, only downside being it requires $1/$2/$5 denomination.
35/8/5 bonus is my go-to game at my local as it's on the machine that typically gives me 0.5% bounceback along with the occasional "free room". But since I haven't hit a royal on it. I'm probably down over $500 on it on quarters in quite sporadic play (somewhere between 10k and 20k hands). But I've used a half dozen free nights at least. It is pretty much like JoB except quad droughts hurt a tiny bit more. [/QUOTE]
I know exactly how much a quad drought can hurt in any Bonus games (Bonus Deluxe/DDB). Not landing at least 2 quads per 1000 hands can be devastating. But believing Dancer's perspective on losing where you will win it right back soon, it does balances out time to time if more quads are hit the next time around. I am still down a bit since I also have not a royal in Bonus Deluxe and JoB, I know and accept that it takes patience.
Turns out single coin and max coin play for 9-6 Bonus Deluxe have about similar expected loss rate at $7.42 per 500 $1 single coin bets and $8.95 per 500 $1 max coin bets. DDB is the other game that is feasible to me to use Phil's strategy, but Phil does not entirely recommend it since a majority play will end up in even money or a loss.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind though that the casino should give you more comps with a max bet vs. a min. bet though. So even 9/6 JoB is probably worth a max bet if you can afford it (and given your previous thread, you should be able to for quarters at least). 99% or less, I see the benefits to Phil's system given his goals vs. his bankroll. If you want to try Phil's system with DDB, I'm thinking you'll need to move up with any 3 of a kind. But it will be a very feast/famine game because DDB is that way anyway.
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alpax
- Video Poker Master
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Thus far before learning of Phil's strategy I am able to manage to handle the ups and downs of $1 max bet on 9/6 JoB for 2000 to 2500 hands per play session (3-4 hours) twice a month for the past six months. If worst comes to worst (not close yet), I will definitely move down to 50 cent denomination and play just JoB during the times bankroll does not become manageable. Unfortunately the vast majority of good video poker paytables in California require $1 minimum denomination.
I confess I got overly excited to see Phil win $1000 payoffs with $250-$300 bankrolls, but I understand it is a very great system with his circumstances, bankroll and the paytables available. The comps I get ($30 show up, 0.05% cash back, 0.1% credit back for their overpriced resort, $20 food voucher), I can play a few dollars short from 100% for 3-4 hours of play. I was avoiding overnight hotel stays this year, that might put it over the edge if I play another 2 hours. On promotional days, I spin this wheel to get $10 - $100 more free play; might put things closer to positive expectation.
As your calculation suggests, I'll stick to $1 max bet for the 9/6 Bonus Deluxe, 9/6 Jacks or Better, and now NSUD (maybe $2 max bet for Full house or better?). And use the strategy for under 99% games as you suggested.
I have read on Phil's website about the DDB strategy moving up on 3 of a kind or better, which happens 11.2% of the time. Similar thing with Deuces Wild 44 where Full House or better happens about 10% of the time. I know DDB might be the best at some places.
I confess I got overly excited to see Phil win $1000 payoffs with $250-$300 bankrolls, but I understand it is a very great system with his circumstances, bankroll and the paytables available. The comps I get ($30 show up, 0.05% cash back, 0.1% credit back for their overpriced resort, $20 food voucher), I can play a few dollars short from 100% for 3-4 hours of play. I was avoiding overnight hotel stays this year, that might put it over the edge if I play another 2 hours. On promotional days, I spin this wheel to get $10 - $100 more free play; might put things closer to positive expectation.
As your calculation suggests, I'll stick to $1 max bet for the 9/6 Bonus Deluxe, 9/6 Jacks or Better, and now NSUD (maybe $2 max bet for Full house or better?). And use the strategy for under 99% games as you suggested.
I have read on Phil's website about the DDB strategy moving up on 3 of a kind or better, which happens 11.2% of the time. Similar thing with Deuces Wild 44 where Full House or better happens about 10% of the time. I know DDB might be the best at some places.
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FloridaPhil
- Video Poker Master
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- Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:28 am
Keep in mind that my strategy was developed in an environment of 96% video poker games, no cash back and comps that are practically worthless. The closer you get to 100%, the less effective it becomes. Also, I wouldn't use my strategy to play Jacks or Better as the only good jackpot happens so infrequently (40,000 hands) that it's not mentally worth playing that long to see a single coin Royal. Deuces is another matter all together. The game is exciting even at a single coin level, the 4 deuces mini jackpot happens frequently enough to give you a decent chance at a max coin win and it tends to run in streaks which allows you to jump to the dollar level with some frequency. I have had mixed results using the cheap strategy when playing DDB. My biggest jackpot yet ($4,000 Royal) happened playing DDB when I was dealt a max coin dollar royal last spring, but the rest has been kind of dicey. DDB doesn't have the streaks so it's kind of an all or nothing experience. I now play deuces almost 100% of the time and I make my profit on the 4 deuces jackpots. I play about 1,000 hands an hour so I see one of them about every 5 hours or so.
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