Craziness Continues...

[alpax]

As for the question I asked to the webmaster with regards to superstitions with denominations, I just did it for fun even knowing what to expect as an answer. I very well understand people's perrerogative about VP getting tighter, but there are superstition is just about every casino game; its up to the player to believe in it or not. I do extensive research on mostly every game offered by the casino and I never saw a mention published anywhere online (WizardOfOdds, Casino City Times, etc.) with regards to VP and denomination except that the traditionally better paytables are at the higher denominations. It is good to hear directly from Action Gaming and I will take what they say about the class 3 RNG.

In order for a casino to get from $1000 to $2000 in RF jackpot at 0.5% meter, they must have raked in $200,000 worth of play without paying out a royal jackpot. Looking at the 7/5 Bonus Poker having 98.01% ER with the normal 800 credit RF accounting for 1.988%, the expected average if every single player played 100% optimally (which I highly doubt) is about 96% ER, so keeping the house keeping 4% of $200,000 would be at least $8000. That is the big point Phil was trying to making, people collectively have lost so much in between chasing the big wins worth $1000. With the progressive so high it will turn out to be a positive expectation game to the player's perspective, but it will only matter to the first player who claims it.

The overall point I was trying to get at is, Phil just exploited another player who is probably flustered losing a ton of money in between chasing the progressive wins. Takes on average 80 hours for a recreational player to land a RF, took Phil much less to do it TWICE. I am guilty as charged for being judgemental at the beginning as well, but the strategy is clear.

What gets overlooked is that a 4 coin payout for Deuces Wild happens 10% of the time which will trigger the max bet, not entirely sure where Phil got 80% single coin and 20% max bet rates. A good burst of winning will enable play at higher denominations.

$1 max bet Quad Deuces = 25 cent max bet RF = $1000

Except Quad Deuces happen 8 times more frequently, thus 8 chances to ride a good wave of winning to hit the Quad Deuce at a higher denomination, if not, a consolation $250 quad deuces is not shabby for a max quarter bet and that is roughly the amount Phil's daily bankroll is.

[FloridaPhil]

Here's why I prefer single coin $5 over max coin $1 play. There is no doubt that the odds favor max coin play under normal conditions where you sit down at the machine, put in your money and play max coins until you are out of money or you win enough to pocket the ticket.   My system uses a progressive betting strategy where 4 coin single coin wins are converted to a max coin bet on the next hand.  The odds of getting 4 deuces are the same on every hand and the machine does not know if the bet is $1, $5 or $100.  Suppose I sit down at the machine and put in a $20 bill.  On the first hand or two, I get a straight flush or higher. I now have the casinos’ money in the machine. On the next hand I get a Royal with Deuces for $625, or 4 deuces for $5,000 or praise God a Royal flush for $20,000.  Now, if I hit a single coin quad deuce, it's still $1,000 which is equal to a quarter royal flush payout.  In any case, I just turned $20 into a pile of money for very little risk to my bankroll.   This is a risk that I take about every hour or two.  I regularly play the same system with quarters, so I don't lose much during the day and I have much to gain.  Would you risk $20 to possibly win $20,000?  I'll bet you would.  The odds of hitting a max coin $5,000 quad deuce is about 1 in 5,000, which is actually pretty good compared to the lotto or a regular slot.  In the past month, I have hit two $1,000 quad deuce jackpots and one max coin Wild Royal.  I'm waiting for the max coin Royal if I live that long...  By the way, we don't have progressive video poker jackpots in Florida.

[olds442jetaway]

I agree the casinos are underutilizing the progressive jackpots on both vp and regular slot machines. Even in the middle of the night at Mohegan Sun casino, the progressive games for both vp and slots are busy. They are so popular that some players have them shut down if they are level 3 or 4 players while they take a break. Obviously they don't want a hit when the progressive amount is way up there if they have played the machine and not hit it yet. I don't play them myself or even have machines shut down like some people do. I have one friend who will have 12-15 hour sessions regularly and he almost always hits the progressive at some point. He won't start playing though until the progressive number is at a certain level. I don't know a lot about the details, but somehow 1200 bucks on a dollar blazing 7 machine rings a bell. Sometimes he still loses though even with hitting the progressive for 1200 or so. Those machines can go many many spins without hitting anything.

[OTABILL]

I agree the casinos are underutilizing the progressive jackpots on both vp and regular slot machines. Even in the middle of the night at Mohegan Sun casino, the progressive games for both vp and slots are busy. They are so popular that some players have them shut down if they are level 3 or 4 players while they take a break. Obviously they don't want a hit when the progressive amount is way up there if they have played the machine and not hit it yet. I don't play them myself or even have machines shut down like some people do. I have one friend who will have 12-15 hour sessions regularly and he almost always hits the progressive at some point. He won't start playing though until the progressive number is at a certain level. I don't know a lot about the details, but somehow 1200 bucks on a dollar blazing 7 machine rings a bell. Sometimes he still loses though even with hitting the progressive for 1200 or so. Those machines can go many many spins without hitting anything.

Olds you reminded me of another reason we don't frequent the local Harrah's property (I have posted other issues in the past). They will shutdown machines for a few hours for their diamond or higher players. When it was crowded, we were unable to play on the bank of machines (progressive DDB) we enjoyed. Obviously our money was not welcome or wanted. Other than at CET, neither my wife nor I have had a similar experience. This includes multiple casinos in Vegas, Laughlin, Arizona & California.

[Lucky Larry]

If you cant play a machine at max bet then you need to leave or go to a smaller denom. I play a progressive quarter vp machine and I see people all the time playing 1 quarter. Um that 25 cent bet wins you 62.50 for a royal. why don't you go play Nickel vp loaded for 25 cents and win 200 dollars and stop screwing up our machines. 4 deuces on 1 coin blah. I don't care if it was a 5 dollar machine or not. Bet max or move along. Enough said.

First, welcome to the forum. On a progressive I would agree but, I know several people who only play 100 hands x 1 credit to maximize the chances for a hit. Generally, only the RF hurts and they all play Deuces games. Each to their own preference.

[FloridaPhil]

"Bet max or move along. Enough said."
I totally understand why a player would want to play max coins all the time or think playing quarters is not a fun thing to do even if the numbers say it's less costly. Players are optimistic, so they consider their winnings without taking into consideration how much they may lose to get that win.  If you are honest with yourself and keep accurate records, add up your actual winnings for the year then subtract your losses.  You will then know the true cost of experiencing that win.  The fact is playing max coins on a negative machine causes you to lose more money.  A negative video poker machine is any situation where one or more of the following exists; less than 100% payback including comps, not playing 100% perfect all the time, or having a limited bankroll.  I lose money playing single coin quarters, but it is much less than someone playing max coins. Sure they may get a Royal or maybe more than one, but the odds will eventually take it all back and then some.  If I bet $20 and hit a $1,000 jackpot playing a single coin $5 machine and go back to playing quarters, I won and the casino lost.  Enough said. 

[Vman96]

The fact is playing max coins on a negative machine causes you to lose more money. 

This is true for many machines, but not those that are very close to 100%. If you were able to play NSUD (99.73% max) for example, or 40/10/6 DDB (99.96% max), you would lose more money on average by playing 1 coin. But for all the machines you encounter in Florida, yes, playing one coin loses less on average vs. 5-coins at the same denomination.

[djc32]

If you cant play a machine at max bet then you need to leave or go to a smaller denom. I play a progressive quarter vp machine and I see people all the time playing 1 quarter. Um that 25 cent bet wins you 62.50 for a royal. why don't you go play Nickel vp loaded for 25 cents and win 200 dollars and stop screwing up our machines. 4 deuces on 1 coin blah. I don't care if it was a 5 dollar machine or not. Bet max or move along. Enough said.


If your talking about not being able to get a seat at a progressive bank ,because there are people playing 1 quarter, I would agree, that would be frustrating,But..

The people that are only betting 1 coin on a progressive aren't really "screwing up our machines" they are adding to the progressive without having a chance to hit it. So "short coiners" on progressives are only hurting themselves, and actually helping the max bet players.

[FloridaPhil]

I Agree.  A progessive video poker machine that is worth playing with max coins is more than a 100% game.  Why would anyone play single coin on a machine like that unless he couldn't get a seat anywhere else?    In the casinos I play there are plenty of seats at negative expectation machines.... 

[Vman96]

<FONT size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">I Agree.  A progessive video poker machine that is worth playing with max coins is more than a 100% game.  Why would anyone play single coin on a machine like that unless he couldn't get a seat anywhere else?    In the casinos I play there are plenty of seats at negative expectation machines.... 

Not sure, but I definitely saw it last weekend. Plenty of 7/5 Bonus non-progressive games with seats open, but they were short coining the 7/5 Bonus progressive instead. *shrug* One looked very new to the game and was just playing next to his friend that was betting max.