Why is this?

[Sirlosealot]

After watching a bank of 10 ultimate X machines ( most players .25 5 play and some .50 a few $1) for 6 or 7 hours we noticed there was only 1 small jackpot.
A player who was playing a 3 play bonus poker said watch I will bet 3 credits and hit something within 10 hands, to our shock he was dealt 4 of a kind, not more then 10 more hands he made quads again and quit.
Just for fun my friend and I put $100 in and bet 2 credits on a 5 play, I swear we made quads WAY above the norm and just to make me sick I made a royal for 500 credits UGH.
My question is... Do some Video poker machines play better when not betting the max? We have done this twice in a month and both times the machine played unreal. I understand it may just be a fluke and most likely is but wow was it fun. TY

[paco13]

I have noticed this. Frequent enough to suspect something fishy. Even on slots. I will sit next to my girlfriend and play max on an identical slot game as hers. She plays minimum or just above. She will keep getting bonus rounds and good hits over and over while I get all duds, no bonus, and any "wins" are only half my bet or worse.

[olds442jetaway]

I have come to the conclusion that after millions of hands played, the answer is yes. I usually play a Martingale clone method where I go up a unit after losing a few hands then continue to go up if I lose a few more. The bets get backed down accordingly. I almost never hit anything good when I have more than 3 quarters bet. The machines I play allow you to bet up to 25 coins. If a machine does start hitting small things when my bets are way up there and I start backing the bets down, the small hits many times keep coming. When my bet gets down to 1 or 2 units, the quad will hit then. For me, the casino has been this way for at least 5 years if not more. I have no proof other than my experiences which like I said covers several million hands. However, I think they can justify it this way....As long as the proper numbers of certain hands and combinations come out as they should in the long run, the amoutn bet would be immaterial. If anyone ever examined their lets say quad totals on job, they would be within the norm as long as the money bet was not counted at all. One other observation I have is I can take one twenty and wander around the casino with it playing a few hands at a time on many machines and not putting my players card in. I can make that twenty last hours and sometimes double it up to forty. That is as long as I continue to play 1 coin on each of the machines I try and cash out after any hit. The same goes for regular slots which I never play until at the end of a session. One twenty wandering around with it just playing a few spins at a time with the minimum bet always gets that bill above twenty dollars at some point before it disappears.

[notes1]

olds, agree with much of what you have posted about the machines being different and even questionable results. Of course, we cannot prove it, other than our own experience, which is often disputed, because others think we believe in some sort of conspiracy theory. I cannot think of a single enterprise (public or private) or occupation that has not been proven to have done something financially negative to some customers. But somehow, casinos are as pure as the driven snow.   What i do believe cannot be disputed is that playing VP is not as much fun, as it used to be. Whether one follows your betting sytem or something else, many are adjusting how they play, how much they play and how much they bet. All one needs to do is walk around the VP machines and see how many are playing less than max coins. Most players, even in the good old days, did not leave the casino with more than they started with. The difference is that the cost of play has risen for the same experience.  I believe the casinos are short sighted on what they are doing. This is no different than how folks reacted when gas prices went up a great deal. People adjusted and simply drove less. That is what VP players are doing, adjusting. Most players have an amount of money they are willing to spend at the casino and if the casinos make it more expensive to play, they adjust their play to meet their budget. After a while, players say the heck with it and will spend their entertainment dollars elsewhere. Look at CET, some of their newer casinos are already in trouble, AC is in real trouble, some players have given up. 

[olds442jetaway]

New York state has just approved 3 more casinos in an already saturated market. One will be built in the Catskills with all the glitz and baubles of a Vegas casino. They are hoping to attract non gamblers. Let's see how they are doing in a few years and if they have been able to avoid bankruptcy. IMO, if the market up there could have supported such a place someone would have built that type of resort without gambling already. I don't know the airport situation up there, but if it is not super convenient, it will go the way of A/C in a hurry. I probably should have started a separate thread on this to see what others think, but as long as we were on the general subject anyway......Oh, I just checked. The Catskills are served by commuter airports with rental car service available. Doesn't sound good to me and the driving distance is about 35 miles from Albany which would have somewhat of a major airport.

[OTABILL]

New York state has just approved 3 more casinos in an already saturated market. One will be built in the Catskills with all the glitz and baubles of a Vegas casino. They are hoping to attract non gamblers. Let's see how they are doing in a few years and if they have been able to avoid bankruptcy. IMO, if the market up there could have supported such a place someone would have built that type of resort without gambling already. I don't know the airport situation up there, but if it is not super convenient, it will go the way of A/C in a hurry. I probably should have started a separate thread on this to see what others think, but as long as we were on the general subject anyway......Oh, I just checked. The Catskills are served by commuter airports with rental car service available. Doesn't sound good to me and the driving distance is about 35 miles from Albany which would have somewhat of a major airport.

I spent many summers in the Catskills when I was young. At the time (50s), there were many mega resorts with a variety of attractions, They included Grossingers, the Concord, Nevelle, Kutchers, Browns, etc. All of them went belly up. So I agree with your premise that there would appear to be no future for a resort without gambling. On the other hand, a casino hotel may very well do well if it could emulate, say Tahoe, for example and provide recreational activities in addition to entertainment, dining, etc. The area is no more than a few hours by car from the New York City metro area. Driving time depends on where in metro NYC.

On the question of saturation, take a look at the article I posted under favorite casinos entitled "Arizona’s Indian Gaming Phenomenon". I find it interesting casinos located proximate to Las Vegas & Laughlin are thriving. Not sure about southern cal casinos but I haven't heard anything to suggest they aren't doing well either.

[FloridaPhil]

You are correct in your observation.  Single coin video poker pays better than max coins.  After years of losses, my wife and I switched to a progressive single coin system over a year ago and we are both up substantially while playing single coin about 80% of the time.   In the past three months, I have been experimenting with single coin $5 play with the same positive result.  Even if you don't believe single coin play pays better, there are many other good reasons to do so with the majority of your play.  Playing single coin reduces your loses on negative expectation games so you can keep your max coin jackpots instead of giving them back.  Professionals only play positive expectation games, they play computer perfect and have unlimited bankrolls.  All others would be much better off playing single coin. 

[olds442jetaway]

[QUOTE=olds442jetaway] New York state has just approved 3 more casinos in an already saturated market. One will be built in the Catskills with all the glitz and baubles of a Vegas casino. They are hoping to attract non gamblers. Let's see how they are doing in a few years and if they have been able to avoid bankruptcy. IMO, if the market up there could have supported such a place someone would have built that type of resort without gambling already. I don't know the airport situation up there, but if it is not super convenient, it will go the way of A/C in a hurry. I probably should have started a separate thread on this to see what others think, but as long as we were on the general subject anyway......Oh, I just checked. The Catskills are served by commuter airports with rental car service available. Doesn't sound good to me and the driving distance is about 35 miles from Albany which would have somewhat of a major airport.

I spent many summers in the Catskills when I was young. At the time (50s), there were many mega resorts with a variety of attractions, They included Grossingers, the Concord, Nevelle, Kutchers, Browns, etc. All of them went belly up. So I agree with your premise that there would appear to be no future for a resort without gambling. On the other hand, a casino hotel may very well do well if it could emulate, say Tahoe, for example and provide recreational activities in addition to entertainment, dining, etc. The area is no more than a few hours by car from the New York City metro area. Driving time depends on where in metro NYC.

On the question of saturation, take a look at the article I posted under favorite casinos entitled "Arizona’s Indian Gaming Phenomenon". I find it interesting casinos located proximate to Las Vegas & Laughlin are thriving. Not sure about southern cal casinos but I haven't heard anything to suggest they aren't doing well either.[/QUOTE]

     Very interesting OTB to get a first hand perspective. I guess we will see what happens. There is no shortage of money in the driving commuting area that is for sure. Maybe people really are looking for an escape just like way back when you and I grew up. I;ve never stayed up there myself, but did tour the caverns up that way when I was about 8 or so.

[spxChrome]

People will say not its all random but I do exactly this when I visit 1 particular casino. It is next to impossible to hit anything on the bank of $1 so I play 1 credit $5 and hit all kinds of goodies. Personally I think they are programmed for these hits on single coin to balance out the dudes on max bets. This keeps the machine with an equal balance of hands but limits the loss and raises the profits. All while maintaining a balanced count of hands dealt to appear "fair". The inspections probably don't care if its 1 or 5 credit it just makes sure the hands balance out. But this is just my personal experience from hundreds of visits to this place.

[paco13]

I was hoping for the Nevele to be selected. I live in the SE corner of the Catskill Mountains. The Nevele is actually closer,nestled between the Catskills and Shawangunks. Beautiful site.I Felt it would have been a much better site and the area really needs a boost. Looks like money and politics played a major role in the process. The people behind the Concord site have a relationship with the state being the owners of Resorts World property mutually run by the NYS Lottery. Monticello is actually about a 135 mile trip from Albany. 105 miles from Kennedy Airport.